Hi Lou, Thanks for taking your time to present the facts. While this takes you away from the important work at hand, it needed to be said.
Regards...Bill - N6GHz ARRISat Team Member Louis McFadin wrote: > It pains me to have to spend any energy answering all these comments > about the Suitsat-2 and AMSAT problems. > Here are the facts: > No flights were missed. The Russians and the ARISS team have been > working very hard to put together Suitsat-2 in a timely manner so that > we could catch a ride to ISS on a Progress mission. The Russians > declared the suit excess quite a while ago. The ISS is getting more > and more crowded since it is now crewed by six people. > There is a real problem with clearance around all the equipment on > ISS. It's to the point of becoming a safety hazard. Each side has a > finite amount of volume allocated. > The suits were seen as a safety hazard because of this crowdedness. > There wasn't a case of no one being notified. We all knew there was a > space problem. > It simply came down to a priority situation. Do you throw away > something that you need to keep and have spent an enormous amount of > money getting to ISS, or something that is very low on the priority? > It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out where Suitsat fell on > that list. > In actuality this may have been a very good thing. We were having a > very difficult time trying to figure out how to properly attach the > solar panels to the suit so that they could properly power the > electronics. Now we will take the solar panels and form a satellite > enclosure around the electronics planned for Suitsat 2 and call it > ARISSat-1. > > We have been working very hard on designing this new configuration and > are making excellent progress due to some very hard working volunteers > both here in the U.S. and in Russia. I am sure the amount of work that > is going on will never be realized by most on this BB but it is > tremendous. What you hear about is only the tip of the iceberg. Not > because its a secret but because most of us don't take the time to > toot our horn. We should but thats the facts. > > The team has not had time to listen to this series of comments on the > BB because we are all dedicated to getting the project done in as fast > and reliable a way as we can. > I can tell you this is a very dedicated team and all are working hard > and doing their best to finish their tasks while keeping their jobs > and sanity. If you want names and more information come to the AMSAT > symposium and meet some of them. > > The Russians send up Progress resupply missions to ISS regularly so > there will be other chances to send up the new ARISSat-1 satellite. > There are at least four Russian EVAs planned for next year so there > will be other chances to deploy ARISSat-1 so not to fret. The most > important thing is to take the proper time to make sure it is done > right so it will work properly and safely. > > So those of you who have actual questions about the facts can send me > or Gould Smith a private e-mail and I will try to answer you with > facts. If you want to complain and not help, please don't send them to > me or the team. We are too busy trying our best to make it happen just > like we have been doing for many years on AMSAT, SAREX and ARISS > projects. > If you really do want to help, send me or any of the BOD a resume and > tell us how you can help. > > So I suggest you use this BB for it's intended purpose as being a way > to exchange information about satellite operations. Don't use it as a > way to pump your ego or to trash others. > > Let's don't loose sight of the true objectives here. Let's have fun > and leave a legacy for those coming after us that we will all be proud > of. My grandson just got his Ham license that makes me very proud! > > > > Lou McFadin > W5DID > AMSAT BOD > ARISS US Hardware manager > > > On Sep 12, 2009, at 11:10 PM, amsat-bb-requ...@amsat.org wrote: > >> Send AMSAT-BB mailing list submissions to >> amsat-bb@amsat.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> amsat-bb-requ...@amsat.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> amsat-bb-ow...@amsat.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of AMSAT-BB digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Volunteered (Mark Lunday) >> 2. FN51 operations (Dave Webb KB1PVH) >> 3. AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Mark L. Hammond) >> 4. Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates) (John P. Toscano) >> 5. Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 (Andrew Rich) >> 6. Re: Volunteered (Bill Ress) >> 7. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones) >> 8. Re: Volunteered (rwmcgw...@gmail.com) >> 9. Re: Volunteered (Dale Hershberger) >> 10. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones) >> 11. Re: Volunteered (Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF) >> 12. Re: Volunteered (Kevin Smith) >> 13. Re: Volunteered (Rocky Jones) >> 14. Re: Volunteered (Andrew Rich) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:50:30 -0400 >> From: "Mark Lunday" <mlun...@nc.rr.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: "'Rocky Jones'" <orbit...@hotmail.com>, <bruni...@usna.edu>, >> <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Cc: rswa...@twcny.rr.com, 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <002f01ca33ea$aa7245e0$ff56d1...@rr.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling >> frustrated >> here. >> >> The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they >> were paid >> staff. It's about expectations as well. >> >> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. >> What >> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >> anyway) have >> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by >> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). None of the volunteers can >> provide >> that kind of support day-in and day-out. Holding volunteers to that >> standard is, in my opinion, a mistake. >> >> Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR >> ABOVE >> what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE >> MIND. I >> have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites for >> about >> as long. To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning across >> geography, is AMAZING. The ability to ask ANY question about >> satellites in >> general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate >> response in >> a timely fashion is impressive. The collective intellectual capital >> and >> horsepower is deep and very valuable. >> >> And THAT'S the issue! We're so accustomed to outstanding >> performance on so >> many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond in >> all >> cases. That's not always realistic. >> >> I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past few >> days, >> and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid >> position >> or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in the >> near >> future (additional funding support) >> >> Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction >> would help >> clarify some of these questions and concerns. Regular status >> reporting on >> progress for specific projects would help the community understand: >> (1) the progress >> (2) the risks >> (3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers >> (4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems >> (leveraging >> some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our >> community). >> >> >> Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer, >> and a 35 >> year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a >> volunteer for >> helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects >> >> Mark Lunday >> WD4ELG >> Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb >> wd4...@arrl.net >> http://wd4elg.net >> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:18:07 +0000 >> From: "Dave Webb KB1PVH" <kb1...@gmail.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] FN51 operations >> To: "AMSAT BB" <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: >> <1853931992-1252790287- >> cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-401973086- >> @bda400.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> Hello all, >> >> I have arrived at FN51 on Cape Cod. Unfortunately, it is raining, >> thundering, and a bit of lightning. I think it is best to hold off >> for a bit from waving my lightning rod at the sky. >> If things clear up a bit, I will give it a shot. The weather is >> supposed to be better tomorrow. >> >> 73, >> >> Dave KB1PVH >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:27:15 -0400 >> From: "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhamm...@gmail.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 >> To: amsat-bb@amsat.org >> Message-ID: <4aac1231.47c1f10a.6666.fffff...@mx.google.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Reloading of the satellite continues. >> >> From the front page of the AMSAT web page: >> >> AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We >> hope to have it operational by the first of the week. >> >> AO-51 Command team >> >> >> 73, >> >> >> >> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 16:46:06 -0500 >> From: "John P. Toscano" <tosca...@tc.umn.edu> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: (Reporting web pages needing updates) >> Cc: "'Amsat BB'" <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <4aac169e.7020...@tc.umn.edu> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Andrew Rich (Home) wrote: >>> No I meant >>> >>> amsatwebchan...@amsat.org >>> >>> " I found this page is old and needs to be deleted" >>> >>> Many hands make light work >> Andrew: I think that the following solution will help you accomplish >> your goal... >> >> At the bottom of many pages of the AMSAT web site is a link entitled: >> "Report a bug on this page" >> >> Click on the link, and a form pops up. The form is pre-filled with the >> URL of the "offending" web page, i.e. the web page you were on at the >> time you clicked on the link. Fill in the rest of the form and click >> on >> the button labeled: >> Submit Report >> >> One of the questions on the form is "Issue Type", and the drop-down >> list >> include numerous choices, such as: >> -- malformed text >> -- broken link >> -- outdated information >> -- misspelling >> -- punctuation >> and several others. You don't even have to start up your email client; >> the form goes to the appropriate person when you click on the Submit >> button. >> >> If the page with a problem does not have one of these links on it, you >> could manually type in the following URL into your browser: >> http://www.amsat.org/amsat-new/bugform.php >> >> The only problem with this is you will have to manually fill in the >> line >> on the form that specifies what web page is problematic. Of course, >> before you change to this URL, use your mouse to highlight the current >> URL (where the problem is located), hit Ctrl+C to copy the URL to the >> Windows Clipboard, then go to the bugform page, mouse or tab to that >> field, and hit Ctrl+V to paste in the URL. [My apologies in advance >> for >> giving you Windows-centric instructions if you are using a different >> OS >> family.] >> >> This seems even easier to me than an email alias to which you send >> problem reports, but maybe that's just me... >> >> But I clearly agree, a thousand pairs of eyes can find more errors and >> omissions than a single pair of eyes. www.nlrs.org (which I maintain) >> is comprised of over 4000 files, so I assume that www.amsat.org is >> much >> bigger! >> >> 73 de W0JT >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:51:59 +1000 >> From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4...@tech-software.net> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 >> To: <amsat-bb@amsat.org>, "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhamm...@gmail.com> >> Message-ID: <1e3e3d647efe4e4e899f5249c789a...@home9e3111fa81> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> Vista probs huh >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Andrew Rich >> Airways Technical Officer Grade 4 >> Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B >> Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC >> email: vk4...@tech-software.net >> web: www.tech-software.net >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark L. Hammond" <marklhamm...@gmail.com> >> To: <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:27 AM >> Subject: [amsat-bb] AO-51 update 12 Sept 2009 >> >> >>> Reloading of the satellite continues. >>> >>> From the front page of the AMSAT web page: >>> >>> AO-51 is off the air while the software reload is in progress. We >>> hope to >>> have it operational by the first of the week. >>> >>> AO-51 Command team >>> >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> >>> >>> Mark L. Hammond [N8MH] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>> author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>> program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.92/2364 - Release Date: >> 09/11/09 >> 17:51:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:06:49 -0700 >> From: Bill Ress <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: Mark Lunday <mlun...@nc.rr.com> >> Cc: rswa...@twcny.rr.com, 'Amsat BB' <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <4aac1b79.4070...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Hi Mark, >> >> Thanks for your comments and your offer to volunteer. >> >> Why don't you contact me off line and we can talk about your specific >> interests. >> >> Regards...Bill - N6GHz >> >> Mark Lunday wrote: >>> Chiming in, after watching this go back and forth and feeling >>> frustrated >>> here. >>> >>> The issue here is about holding volunteers accountable as if they >>> were paid >>> staff. It's about expectations as well. >>> >>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts >>> off. What >>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >>> anyway) have >>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by >>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). None of the volunteers can >>> provide >>> that kind of support day-in and day-out. Holding volunteers to that >>> standard is, in my opinion, a mistake. >>> >>> Having said that, what AMSAT volunteers have accomplished is SO FAR >>> ABOVE >>> what a normal volunteer organization achieves, that it BOGGLES THE >>> MIND. I >>> have been an AMSAT member for 18 months and active on satellites >>> for about >>> as long. To see what has been achieved by volunteers, spanning >>> across >>> geography, is AMAZING. The ability to ask ANY question about >>> satellites in >>> general and AMSAT in particular on this BB, and get an accurate >>> response in >>> a timely fashion is impressive. The collective intellectual >>> capital and >>> horsepower is deep and very valuable. >>> >>> And THAT'S the issue! We're so accustomed to outstanding >>> performance on so >>> many things with AMSAT that we start *expecting* above and beyond >>> in all >>> cases. That's not always realistic. >>> >>> I had a few 1:1 threads with some folks about this over the past >>> few days, >>> and I think we could address some of the problems if we had a paid >>> position >>> or two. I understand that this is being presented to the ARRL in >>> the near >>> future (additional funding support) >>> >>> Another side note: it sounds like more communication/interaction >>> would help >>> clarify some of these questions and concerns. Regular status >>> reporting on >>> progress for specific projects would help the community understand: >>> (1) the progress >>> (2) the risks >>> (3) the level of effort provided by the volunteers >>> (4) opportunities for additional input for addressing problems >>> (leveraging >>> some of that powerful intellectual capital and horsepower in our >>> community). >>> >>> >>> Meanwhile, as a project manager w/ PMP cert, Electrical Engineer, >>> and a 35 >>> year ham with military background, I am raising my hand as a >>> volunteer for >>> helping with the planning of future AMSAT projects >>> >>> Mark Lunday >>> WD4ELG >>> Hillsborough, NC - FM06kb >>> wd4...@arrl.net >>> http://wd4elg.net >>> http://wd4elg.blogspot.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47 -0500 >> From: Rocky Jones <orbit...@hotmail.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: <mlun...@nc.rr.com>, <bruni...@usna.edu>, <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Cc: rswa...@twcny.rr.com, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <col106-w241b6e30399c6831599b8ad6...@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> >> >> >>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts >>> off. What >>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >>> anyway) have >>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by >>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). >> Mark. >> >> "level of performance". >> >> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to >> equal the work through put of a paid employee... >> >> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can >> get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is >> expected to have three sermons a week ready to go... >> >> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the >> tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into >> the pulpit in the first place. >> >> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who >> professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is >> on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to >> meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that. >> >> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure. >> >> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links >> and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit >> more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other >> reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are >> well understood. >> >> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so >> complicated that they missed their free launch. >> >> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad >> management. >> >> That reality seems to bite some folks >> >> Robert WB5MZO >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:05:07 +0000 >> From: rwmcgw...@gmail.com >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: "Rocky Jones" <orbit...@hotmail.com>, amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org, >> mlun...@nc.rr.com, bruni...@usna.edu, "Bill Ress" >> <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Cc: rswa...@twcny.rr.com, amsat bb <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: >> <1167601682-1252796952- >> cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1812505125- >> @bda357.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> >> >> Content-Type: text/plain >> >> This is unadulterated bull shit made from whole cloth. >> >> We have a free launch just as we have always have. The russians, as >> is their right when they have command, decided with all the >> equipment modeled people coming up to toss all orlan suits without >> notice to us (and they owed us nothing). >> >> I would be the very last person to say AMSAT is above all criticism >> but you are clearly nor the spokesperson needed for the critics. >> Your notes are those of a person who wants to fiddle while he burns >> Rome. What is needed in my not so humble opinion is a spokesperson >> for the critics who is not perceived as full of animus. >> >> Bob >> N4HY LM >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Rocky Jones <orbit...@hotmail.com> >> >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 17:09:47 >> To: <mlun...@nc.rr.com>; <bruni...@usna.edu>; <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Cc: <rswa...@twcny.rr.com>; Amsat BB<amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts >>> off. What >>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >>> anyway) have >>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided by >>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). >> Mark. >> >> "level of performance". >> >> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to >> equal the work through put of a paid employee... >> >> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can >> get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is >> expected to have three sermons a week ready to go... >> >> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the >> tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into >> the pulpit in the first place. >> >> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who >> professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is >> on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to >> meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that. >> >> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure. >> >> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak links >> and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit >> more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other >> reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are >> well understood. >> >> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so >> complicated that they missed their free launch. >> >> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad >> management. >> >> That reality seems to bite some folks >> >> Robert WB5MZO >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >> author. >> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:21:43 -0700 >> From: Dale Hershberger <da...@alaska.net> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: Rocky Jones <orbit...@hotmail.com>, amsat bbs <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Cc: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <4aac1ef7.7070...@alaska.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Rocky Jones wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts >>>> off. What >>>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >>>> anyway) have >>>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be provided >>>> by >>>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >>>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). >>>> >>> Mark. >>> >>> "level of performance". >>> >>> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to >>> equal the work through put of a paid employee... >>> >>> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool can >>> get into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is >>> expected to have three sermons a week ready to go... >>> >>> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in the >>> tools being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into >>> the pulpit in the first place. >>> >>> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who >>> professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is >>> on...but for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to >>> meet a minimium level of competency and demonstrate that. >>> >>> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure. >>> >>> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak >>> links and then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a >>> bit more "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no >>> other reason to make sure that the methods that defeat the failure >>> are well understood. >>> >>> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so >>> complicated that they missed their free launch. >>> >>> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is >>> bad management. >>> >>> That reality seems to bite some folks >>> >>> Robert WB5MZO >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>> author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>> program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>> >>> >> I really want to reply in good faith. It is very difficult in light >> of >> the nature the tone of the way this thread is going. I am a member of >> AMSAT and >> proud of it. The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read >> Volunteers! Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we look >> for >> the weak points and focus >> on the corrections that can be made. >> >> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or >> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the >> Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF. >> >> If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal >> directly with them. >> The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then >> degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of >> AMSAT. >> We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good >> information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed >> to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where >> it >> turns others off. >> >> I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion >> >> Dale - KL7XJ >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 10 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 20:17:45 -0500 >> From: Rocky Jones <orbit...@hotmail.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: <da...@alaska.net>, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <col106-w58b6a2252eaba4d1398e82d6...@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> >> >> >> >> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or >> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the >> >> Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF. >> >> >> >> If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal >> directly with them. >> >> The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then >> degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of >> AMSAT. >> >> We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good >> information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed >> >> to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point where >> it >> turns others off. >> >> >> >> I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion >> >> >> >> Dale - KL7XJ >> >> Dale. Pointing out errors in performance that are consistent is not >> bashing...and it doesnt matter if they are volunteers or paid staff. >> >> If they cannot deal with responsible criticism, and oddly enough no >> one has refuted the statement I made that 1) they missed a launch >> date and 2) in large measure because they bit off to large a >> project... >> >> instead all one gets is "wow I am upset because you are pointing out >> flaws in my performance, I am a volunteer I work 16-18 hours a day >> and wow this is space". >> >> No one is calling them stupid, indeed the only people who have blown >> their corks are those who dont have answers to reasonable questions. >> >> Robert WB5MZO >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 11 >> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 02:12:41 +0000 >> From: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <ni...@ngunn.net> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <4aac551...@ngunn.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> >> It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/ >> administrator to stop/delete/kill all this worthless >> bitching. >> >> Rocky Jones wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or >>> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 12 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 22:15:17 -0400 >> From: Kevin Smith <kevin.j.sm...@comcast.net> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <ni...@ngunn.net> >> Cc: Amsat BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <69f07aec-da3d-43e9-b5c9-49de5afb8...@comcast.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; >> delsp=yes >> >> Failing that can we at least stop feeding this troll. >> >> Kevin Smith >> N3HKQ >> >> On Sep 12, 2009, at 10:12 PM, Nigel Gunn G8IFF/W8IFF <ni...@ngunn.net> >> wrote: >> >>> It amazes me that this group does not have an owner/moderator/ >>> administrator to stop/delete/kill all this worthless >>> bitching. >>> >>> Rocky Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or >>>> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>> author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>> program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 13 >> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:41:32 -0500 >> From: Rocky Jones <orbit...@hotmail.com> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: <rwmcgw...@gmail.com>, <amsat-bb-boun...@amsat.org>, >> <mlun...@nc.rr.com>, <bruni...@usna.edu>, <b...@hsmicrowave.com> >> Cc: rswa...@twcny.rr.com, Amsat BB <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <col106-w355aa9617cbdc9609f8036d6...@phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> >> >>> We have a free launch just as we have always have. The russians, >>> as is their right when they have command, decided with all the >>> equipment modeled people coming up to toss all orlan suits without >>> notice to us (and they owed us nothing). >>> >> Bob. I am told by people at JSC that this is not an accurate >> statement. >> >> Robert WB5MZO >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Bing brings you health info from trusted sources. >> http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEINA_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1 >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 14 >> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:19:04 +1000 >> From: "Andrew Rich" <vk4...@tech-software.net> >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> To: "Dale Hershberger" <da...@alaska.net>, "Rocky Jones" >> <orbit...@hotmail.com>, "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Cc: amsat bbs <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Message-ID: <670d13d572204184bda77df2b146f...@home9e3111fa81> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >> reply-type=original >> >> http://php.opensourcecms.com/scripts/show.php?catid=all&cat=All%20Scripts >> >> CMS - kewl >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> Andrew Rich >> Airways Technical Officer Grade 4 >> Surveillance - RADAR ADS-B >> Amateur Radio Callsign VK4TEC >> email: vk4...@tech-software.net >> web: www.tech-software.net >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dale Hershberger" <da...@alaska.net> >> To: "Rocky Jones" <orbit...@hotmail.com>; "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@amsat.org >> Cc: "amsat bbs" <amsat-bb@amsat.org> >> Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 8:21 AM >> Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Volunteered >> >> >>> Rocky Jones wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Noone is questioning whether the volunteers worked their butts off. >>>>> What >>>>> we're talking about is that the AMSAT community (at least some, >>>>> anyway) >>>>> have >>>>> an expectation of performance equivalent to what would be >>>>> provided by >>>>> full-time paid staff. Well, as long as it's volunteers only, that >>>>> expectation is not reasonable (IMHO). >>>>> >>>> Mark. >>>> >>>> "level of performance". >>>> >>>> No one at least in their right mind would expect a "volunteer" to >>>> equal >>>> the work through put of a paid employee... >>>> >>>> For example..in The Church of Christ (where I worship) any fool >>>> can get >>>> into the pulpit and preach...and the other hand the preacher is >>>> expected >>>> to have three sermons a week ready to go... >>>> >>>> But the volunteers need to have similar levels of competency in >>>> the tools >>>> being used as the Preacher or they should not be allowed into the >>>> pulpit >>>> in the first place. >>>> >>>> It is like tower climbing...I dont do it as fastl as the folks who >>>> professionally climb the 1000 footer that our clubs machine is >>>> on...but >>>> for the team that does it to get on the tower...we had to meet a >>>> minimium >>>> level of competency and demonstrate that. >>>> >>>> No matter how it is spun suitsat 1 was a failure. >>>> >>>> Good engineering standards would dictate figuring out the weak >>>> links and >>>> then correcting them trying something that perhaps was a bit more >>>> "sophisticated" but not all that much more...if for no other >>>> reason to >>>> make sure that the methods that defeat the failure are well >>>> understood. >>>> >>>> Instead what happened is that the "team" put together a project so >>>> complicated that they missed their free launch. >>>> >>>> I dont care how good the engineering is to miss a free launch is bad >>>> management. >>>> >>>> That reality seems to bite some folks >>>> >>>> Robert WB5MZO >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. >>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>>> author. >>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>>> program! >>>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >>>> >>>> >>> I really want to reply in good faith. It is very difficult in >>> light of >>> the nature the tone of the way this thread is going. I am a member >>> of >>> AMSAT and >>> proud of it. The organization is made up of volunteers.....Read >>> Volunteers! Things will go wrong.. When we have problems we look >>> for >>> the weak points and focus >>> on the corrections that can be made. >>> >>> What I do not understand is the persistent bashing of the BOD or >>> managers of this non profit volunteer corporation. We are not the >>> Boeing, Lockheed or the USAF. >>> >>> If something is not going your way contact a board member and deal >>> directly with them. >>> The way this thread is going it is accomplishing nothing more then >>> degrading or demeaning the volunteer and contributing members of >>> AMSAT. >>> We have a lot of folks on this bb that have a lot of very good >>> information to contribute to all. I just am really disappointed >>> to see some very talented folks carry this thread to the point >>> where it >>> turns others off. >>> >>> I do not expect a reply to this. I just wanted to express my opinion >>> >>> Dale - KL7XJ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >>> author. >>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >>> program! >>> Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.94/2366 - Release Date: >> 09/12/09 >> 17:50:00 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the >> author. >> Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite >> program! >> http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb >> >> >> End of AMSAT-BB Digest, Vol 4, Issue 464 >> **************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. > Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! > Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb > _______________________________________________ Sent via amsat...@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author. Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program! Subscription settings: http://amsat.org/mailman/listinfo/amsat-bb
