On Sat, 06 May 2006 06:48:19 -0400, Karel Demeyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Op za, 06-05-2006 te 11:00 +0200, schreef Harry Vennik:
Op vrijdag 5 mei 2006 23:53, schreef Vivia Nikolaidou:
> On Fri, 5 May 2006, Harry Vennik wrote:
> > > [OFF] minimise instead of close -> in preferences
> > > This is something only set once. From usability point of view
> > > it's even wrong to minimise a window (to the tray) when the close
> > > button is used as this should do the same as the "close" entry in
the
> > > main menu. Though, this is an often requested feature, so it
should
> > > be kept, and it's place is in the preferences window.
> >
> > I do not agree 100% here, but I think you're close. The tray icon
should
> > be regarded as a separate window. Pressing the close button or
close in
> > the main menu should both only close the window they're in, the main
> > window in this case. There should also be a 'Quit' or 'Exit' item
> > appended to the first menu that will terminate aMSN, and thus make
the
> > trayicon disappear too.
>
> No, no, please NOT. First, the average user won't see the difference
> between Close and Exit, I've never seen such a thing in any
applications.
You're not using KDE I guess???
In KDE an item called 'Close' will always close only a window (or if
there is
only 1 window for the instance of the app, just the document), and a
'Quit'
will close the app.
> Second AND most important: the close button with the X in the
program's
> main window is there for quitting the program, for goodness' sake!
Yes it
> is for closing the window they are in, but isn't this the same as the
icon
> down right, or the window in the taskbar?
No, because I'll get really annoyed (and so will many other users) if
clicking
the close button will terminate aMSN!!! I want it to be always running,
and
when I close the window, I do so to get rid of that window, and no more
than
that.
From usability point, a close button on the main window *should*
terminate the application. THe trayicon is just over mis-used by much
IM-clients. You know, that tray is a "notification area". The place
for minimised windows to represent their respective application is still
alive *is* the taskbar. Having 2 places for this is just confusing.
You, you are used to it because you just learned it this wqay, but you
don't want new-comers to be like "wtf ?". I saw more then one
un-experienced user just close a program like this with the close button
without knowing it's still alive. MSN Messenger, the first time, shows
a warning to say like "Hey, I'm going to do something you won't expect,
so I warn you". Why should the user memorise "for this application
closing means removing the closing means minimising to an icon" and
"gfor that application 'minimise' means the same but instead of just an
icon it shows an icon and a title in the menubar" and "for this, close
means exit the application completely".
This "notification area" idea is made for the OS and applications
(mostly deamons that don't have a window on the desktop) to notify the
user about things. One way where aMSN could use the notificationj area
would be to have an icon there when a new message arrives or a mail
arrives.
Though, I'm sure most of our users will complain if we only have an icon
for this kind of 'notifications'. Therefor, let's keep the icon always
shown for now (maybe have it plug-in'able) and have the main window
just behave like any other aplication by default. This means, press
"close" or choose Account > Close means the window closes and the
application is terminated. We could have an (advanced) preference for
having it "minimise to tray" on close then for those who can't live
without it, but this should *NOT* be default. This way, novice users
aren't confused and those more advanced users who do want to have it
minimise, they are the ones who know where to find it.
NOOOOOOO WAYYYYYYYYYYY, I will vote for this, I will even change your code
if you ever do it the wrong way, nooooooooooooooooo, the DEFAULT behavior
on close should be to minimize to tray, no questions about it!!!
I think you've been reading too much HIG :P what you're talking about is
not 'novice users', you're talking about 'users who have read the HIG and
remember all of it', in that case, yes, you're right, but wtf, you're
saying that novice users will click close and amsn will close and that's
it, they'll be happy ???
hey, OUR users are people migrating from msn messenger, they will want the
same behavior as msn messenger!!! that's what they EXPECT, they don't
expect what the HIG said, they don't even know what a HIG is, all they
know is that when they close their msn, it goes to tray!
I agree 100% on what Harry said, maybe it's the KDE style, and you're
talking about the gnome style... I'm telling you about the MSN style!!!
people should have what they expect, and no, we're not talking about
advanced users, we talk about novice users, and novice users are used to
msn messenger, not to gnome nor kde, nor the hig... keep that in mind..
so no matter what, make sure the default behavior is to minimize to tray,
an advanced preference to allow it to 'exit on close', and *maybe* as I
said, have 2 menu items in account, one for 'minimize to tray' and one for
'exit' just to avoid the confusion...
> Then why shouldn't the Close button just close it and keep it in the
taskbar
> (ie, minimized)? It's like this in every program that I've seen,
apart from
> some IMs which insist on laughing at you: "you want to close me?
Haha, you
> can't, I want to stay open!". One of the reasons why I first loved
aMSN is
> that it obeyed to the normal rule.
Clicking the Minimize button will keep the window open, and just hide
it, and
it will keep taking space on the taskbar for example. Clicking close
should
really close the window (it really isn't there anymore, so it won't be
on the
taskbar either), but still not hurt the trayicon. Those IMs you're
talking
about can still be terminated by right-clicking the trayicon and
choosing
quit.
Most, I think all, apps that have a tray icon will not terminate on
closing
the window, but stay stand-by in the tray.
> Now that I saw that the HIG people think like this too, I'm even
capable of
> placing a veto here. Really.
No, I don't think so. ;-)
But you are only thinking about users of your sort, the "advanced
computer users".
no, he's talking about kde users, which happens to be also valid for users
migrating from msn messenger...
>
>
>
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