Hey, maybe stupid question... But will users use our connection manager for MSN ? You are designing a very complex thing ! Why do you want to keep libmsn in a shell like to protect it ? What I see for now is that you would like to use libmsn without Telepathy... But well, who will use it without Telepathy ? Even aMSN2 will use Telepathy... (Do you think that aMSN will support a day libmsn ? Are you mad ? A total redesign of it would be necessary ) So if it is to do the job for some hypothetic people who will use it in a shitty product (don't forget that GPL doesn't forbid that) I would say it's useless... (By the way, shitty because it doesn't use new standards of interoperability) You surely know that there is already a connection manager for MSN (still incomplete I agree) but if, finally, it works better and faster than ours (because it hasn't any layer to do some wrapping)... It's useless to make Roelof work on it and I am sure he has better things to do ;)... Sorry to make you go down on Earth... So for me Roelof should write the connection manager directly... Phil
Le Sunday 16 July 2006 21:00, Harry Vennik a écrit : > LOL, this is FUN!! We must have been typing our mails to get aMSN2 going at > the same time! Anyways, we're moving now! > > (Remember the time folks here said that aMSN2 was just an imagination, and > would probably never exist in reality?) > > Op zondag 16 juli 2006 20:32, schreef Youness Alaoui: > > Hi Harry, > > Thank you for the explanation, indeed I didn't get it in the first > > place.. and to be honest, I didn't understand in the second place either > > > > :P but I do get the general idea of what you're saying, unfortunately, I > > > > don't know how telepathy and dbus works... + I just woke up and I can't > > understand much at this time... > > for this reason, I will quit the amsn team.... haha, no I'm just > > kidding, I ment, I will quit this discussion, because it just makes me > > feel more and more lost... but wait until I get my new PC, and I'll read > > the docs and websites and I'll hopefully get back on track and be more > > active on this subject. > > > >From what I understood of what you said below is to have the same API > > for libmsn as telepathy's API... but I don't get it, why ??? you see, if > > you're talking about having DBUS calls in libmsn, I say no, DBUS should > > be in telepathy, and libmsn should NOT use that, libmsn should only have > > API functions and callbacks... we should not force anyone using libmsn > > to use DBUS calls... > > No, libmsn will not care about D-BUS. I was just talking about implementing > the glib-equivalent of the API. Creating the connection manager will then > just consist of adding the D-BUS bindings. > > > maybe I understood wrong too... > > > > btw, amsn2 project structure should be added to SVN and we should start > > implementing the others modules because once MSNP13 will be finished, we > > will need a client READY to use MSNP13, and not let libmsn hang > > somewhere in SVN, unused for another year... > > At least create the amsn2 module. The rest of the structure can be done > after a few weeks (max.), once the design discussions will show some > obvious direction. At this moment it is just to unsure what to create in > there. (Yes, I know, there was a layout done, but we don't know yet if it > will fit our needs well enough.) > > > there is work to be done.. a lot of work to be done, and I hope everyone > > will have enough motivation and time to do it!!! as an example, we need > > to write the GUI modules (Harry, I think you're working on the xml2gui > > module), we need the GUI xml files too, we need the 'data' modules, we > > need the dbus for tcl module, we will also need to have a full listing > > of everything we can do now to make sure amsn2 will not have less > > features than amsn.. it's the only way people will switch from one to > > another... etc... > > Not so fast... Our first aim is: being able to chat with aMSN2 using > MSNP13. Additional features come after that ;-) > Once aMSN2 implements most of the featureset of aMSN, we are ready for its > first alpha release. > > > Can someone create the structure in SVN, Phil was about to do it but I > > think he never did... once it's done, start commiting your code in > > there... xml2gui in there (even if incomplete it has to be versionned!), > > libmsn should be committed in there, so can someone add the new user to > > svn access ? (Jerome/Alvaro?) > > There is no code yet that is actually going to be part of aMSN2, so nothing > to commit yet. Let's say the first commits will be around 2 weeks from now. > > > KaKaRoTo > > > > On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 12:36:47PM +0200, Harry Vennik wrote: > > > Op zondag 16 juli 2006 07:08, schreef Youness Alaoui: > > > > On Sat, Jul 15, 2006 at 06:30:06PM +0200, Harry Vennik wrote: > > > > > Please note that you can perfecty implement that API without caring > > > > > a bit about D-BUS!!! Then in the end libmsn + a few xml files + > > > > > dbus-glib bindings == connection manager for msnp13!!! > > > > > To ease the implementation, you might have libmsn depend om > > > > > libtelepathy by extending some classes it provides. Once every > > > > > essential method has been implemented, libtelepathy may effectively > > > > > drop out (in which case we could add a few #ifdefs in the header > > > > > files of libmsn and a > > > > > --without-telepathy build option). Using that build option will > > > > > then change the class definitions such that they are not extending > > > > > libtelepathy classes anymore, while still providing the same API. > > > > > > > > I don't think libmsn should depend on libtelepathy, if you're talking > > > > about only for testing, then I say, no need to use telepathy for the > > > > tests, you can have a simple helloworld application do the tests for > > > > you.. I don't see why you would need to integrate libtelepathy inside > > > > libmsn... maybe you can be clearer and I'll agree... > > > > > > You apparently did not get the idea exactly, but also I was wrong. I > > > forgot about a peculiarity of glib that makes the idea fail: overriding > > > is not supported in glib, only something similar to what is called > > > 'hiding' in .NET (although it is not literally hiding anything in > > > glib). > > > > > > The idea was that, for example, a connection object from libmsn would > > > be a specialized version of a telepathy connection object (i.e. it is > > > an instance of a derived class). So invoking the NewChannel method > > > would invoke msn_conn_new_channel instead of tp_conn_new_channel. > > > > > > This would work perfectly, because via D-BUS the call to > > > tp_conn_new_channel on the client side would be translated to > > > NewChannel by the client-side proxy, and the server-side proxy will > > > translate that to msn_conn_new_channel, because on the server-side the > > > actual type is known. (The terms client and server refer to D-BUS > > > client and server, i.e. the IM program is the client, the connection > > > object instance - which is in a different process - is the server). > > > > > > If you just bypass D-BUS, it won't work anymore, as the proxy is not > > > there anymore! But of course, if the program using the lib is > > > completely unaware of Telepathy, and calls the libmsn function > > > directly, it will work again. > > > > > > Maybe the above does not seem a problem: it works in both cases that we > > > intend to support. And that's right, so far the idea would work, but > > > did you notice that in both cases where it works, libtelepathy is > > > either not used at all, or only on the D-BUS client side? So the final > > > conclusion is: we won't need libtelepathy in libmsn development! > > > > > > This however does not trash te core of the idea: libmsn API == > > > libtelepathy API (except for the name prefixes being different: in > > > libtelepathy it is 'Tp' for classes, 'TELEPATHY' for macros, 'tp_' for > > > functions, in libmsn it would be 'Msn', 'MSN' and 'msn_' > > > respectively.). > > > > > > Doing it this way will: > > > - provide a perfect glib-style API for apps that just want to use > > > libmsn, without Telepathy > > > - allow us to create a Telepathy connection manager just by writing > > > some xml files and a connection manager definition (the ini-style > > > .manager file). - allow any IM application designed to use libmsn to be > > > ported to Telepathy in a few hours! > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >-- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make > > > your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based > > > on Apache Geronimo > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=12164 > > >2 _______________________________________________ > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Amsn-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Amsn-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel
