TkHtml and XULRunner won't go together, but XULRunner can perfectly render HTML itself, so there is also no need for TkHtml in aMSN2. The idea is to have the complete GUI on XULRunner. Dialogs are likely to be pure XUL. The main window (login / contactlist) will also contain a lot of XHTML. XHTML and XUL can be combined in a single XML file using XML namespaces.
I agree with Tom that we should make aMSN sexier as soon as possible. TkHtml is a nice way to do that for now, and our GUI team will gain experience that they can use when creating the aMSN2 GUI. And as I said already, there might even be reuse of HTML code. Harry Op maandag 17 juli 2006 17:51, schreef Youness Alaoui: > Oh yeah, I forgot about that in my email.... yes, this has to be > discussed.. I do not want your work to be lost/not used, for sure! but I > don't know how XUL works, how we could integrate both tkhtml and XUL... > my idea is to have XUL for all GUI and have tkhtml for the chat window > and contact list.. > What I don't know about tkhtml or html for that instance, is how it > works with GUI elements.. can we add a button and make it have a GTK > look ? how can it integrate naturally in your desktop environment ? > Harry, please talk to Tom about this and seek for a solution, as I am > for tkhtml, it will allow us to have CSS styles for the chat window, > like kopete has! > > KKRT > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2006 at 02:39:45PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Okay, so tk is being dropped, I guess that billiob phil and my work > > with tkhtml will be used for amsn1 then? > > > > Tom > > > > On 7/17/06, Harry Vennik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Thanks Youness for explaining the idea. It was absolutely not true that > > > Tcl/Tk would be dropped completely. Much more will be in C than > > > currently in aMSN2, but still most of the logic will be in Tcl, only Tk > > > will be dropped! And the logic will be implemented as a kind of 'core > > > plugins'. (Phil, I must admit, the way I named those is not right, in > > > the document is seems like those will be optional, but that is not what > > > I meant. Needs to change in the next version.) Talking about languages, > > > I will also clarify why I mentioned JavaScript. We will probably need > > > it to implement some basic GUI behavior and to link the XUL-based GUI > > > with the C code behind, but my intend is to keep the use of JavaScript > > > as minimal as possible, and not use it al all if possible. In any case, > > > no serious piece of logic will be implemented in JavaScript. > > > > > > About glib and C++... I am more of a C++ hater than a glib lover. In my > > > opinion C++ should never have been created. Many people seem to like > > > it, but I don't see why. The way the OO principles are implemented in > > > C++ is not usable for me (I learned about OO with VisualBasic and Java > > > in the first place, then glib is close than C++, even though you need > > > to code every thing yourself in glib, and C++ will do some for you, the > > > principles followed by glib do match those of real OO as in Java better > > > than C++ does). In fact Objective-C is still the best one around, but > > > it is only supported well on Mac, support on Linux is limited, and > > > Objective-C on Windows might not be possible at all. So for that reason > > > it would not be a good choice for us. > > > > > > About my document missing much information... that is completely true. > > > We'll need to develop that document. I put it in the Wiki too, and I > > > will update it there regularly to reflect things discussed here, and > > > once it clearly takes some direction, I will issue a new draft that > > > contains the changes, and maybe new ideas emerging from that. > > > > > > About the Wiki page listing the modules and who will work on it, it is > > > there indeed, but needs change. The final list of modules is different, > > > and people will probably shuffle around a bit. For example I am at > > > 'Telepathy to GUI Layer', but moved to XML2GUI in the meantime, finally > > > dropping most of that in favor of an existing solution, but cannot go > > > back, because there will probably not exactly be any 'Telepathy to GUI > > > Layer'. > > > > > > What we'll probably have: > > > - The GUI in XUL > > > - D-BUS for Tcl > > > - libamsn2_ui > > > - libamsn2_tcl > > > - libmsn > > > - The 'core plugins' that will glue everything together. > > > > > > In the beginning anyone only able to code TCL can stay on aMSN1. They > > > can join aMSN2 later, when some non-TCL parts they will need get near > > > the alpha status. (Don't say this is unfair. aMSN 1.0 needs to get out > > > too, and TCL coding for aMSN2 simply cannot be done in the first > > > stage.) > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > Op maandag 17 juli 2006 01:00, schreef Youness Alaoui: > > > > ok... I think we'd better discuss this on IRC, it will be a lot > > > > easier.. unfortunately, as I said already many times I can't do much > > > > with my PC right now... > > > > I think Phil is wrong about glib.. I do understand that OO emulation > > > > is not as good as real OO with C++ but problem with C++ is as you > > > > know, the libstdc++ ABI changing every couple of weeks... so it's > > > > hard to package something... > > > > if it's not for that, I would say C++ all the way!!! > > > > C is also prefered to C++ because of the linux commuity emotions > > > > where everything everywhere is C and we don't want to switch to > > > > something else (tell someone to compile a java version of the linux > > > > kernel, he'll laugh/spit at you...) > > > > about tcl/tk, we didn't say we'll drop it, on the contrary, it will > > > > be our base... you need to see amsn2 as a 3 module project > > > > the protocol - the logic - the graphics > > > > the protocol will be farsight+telepathy+libmsn > > > > the graphics will be XML files, XUL, etc... > > > > the logic will be Tcl... > > > > the logic will take care of saying "ohh, the protocol said I have a > > > > new contact in my allow list, ok, then update the allow list data and > > > > do whatever has to be done for that event"... > > > > we'll also store in Tcl snit objects the different data types, the > > > > contact list, the users, the groups, etc... > > > > I don't know how XULRunner works but I think I saw a 'javascript' > > > > word in your doc... what's that ? are you serious about using damn JS > > > > in amsn2 ? I would say definitely NO! use Tcl if any scripting is > > > > required! > > > > > > > > Didn't we have a page on the wiki that described all modules and > > > > which team member wanted to work on which module? it is very > > > > abstracted, Harry's document aims to go more technical, but I think > > > > it lacks many info... remember the mail I sent with details about the > > > > snit objects to use ? the interactoin ? the directory structures, > > > > etc... ? read it and use it... we need to join every mail on the > > > > subject. > > > > Tcl should be the core of amsn2, this is what amsn2 is really > > > > about!!! it's not because someone uses libmsn with telepathy to > > > > create his own client that it's the same as amsn2.. the protocol is > > > > one thing and has nothing to do with the client... the GUI is the > > > > same, it is our front end, but a nice button is nothing if you click > > > > on it and nothing happens... those events will be Tcl, so the aMSN > > > > spirit is not dead and noone has to leave the team! > > > > > > > > KKRT > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 16, 2006 at 11:41:41PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > I agree as regards dropping tcl/tk - I cant program in anything > > > > > else except PHP lol so i wouldnt be able to contribute if we > > > > > switched langs (sorry Harry havent read the doc yet, just going on > > > > > what Phil said, will read later) > > > > > > > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > > > On 7/16/06, Philippe Valembois - Phil > > > > > > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Ouch ! > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > between my so beautiful week end and my first day of work > > > > > > tomorrow, I take the time to read mails and read yours too ;) > > > > > > And the first point where I disagree is : > > > > > > You want to drop Tcl/Tk ! > > > > > > And it's a huge point ! Because if you drop it you will have many > > > > > > devels who will leave the project because they don't know C or > > > > > > C++... Tcl/Tk would be the only common point between aMSN and > > > > > > aMSN2 so if you remove it why call it aMSN2 ? (not the same > > > > > > devels, not the same languages, no incompatibility ) The only > > > > > > common point I can find is the aim to have the better MSN client > > > > > > the Earth will ever have ! KaKaRoTo you said I didn't created the > > > > > > amsn2 tree... But if I created it I would have put in it our work > > > > > > with TkHtml... But where will be TkHtml in this design ? It will > > > > > > be a GUI in TCL... But what said Harry ? "Usage of Tk for plugin > > > > > > UI components will however be strongly discouraged." so it will > > > > > > be a sort of "Do you I say but not what I do" very strange... > > > > > > In addition, you seem to be very tied with GLib and don't want to > > > > > > use C++... Why ? Why use some emulation of C++ in C ? If you want > > > > > > to use classes so we should use C++... Else I could advise you to > > > > > > code our classes in assembly :p Well, in fact, I totally disagree > > > > > > with this design but maybe I am the black sheep... Even if I know > > > > > > C and bases of C++, I couldn't let all non C/C++ devels leave the > > > > > > team... Please everybody say if I am wrong or not ? Maybe I have > > > > > > too much feelings... Phil > > > > > > P.S. Harry, it's not that your design is bad (maybe on Glib thing > > > > > > it is bad :p) but I think it hasn't any relation with the aMSN > > > > > > that everybody know... > > > > > > > > > > > > Le Sunday 16 July 2006 20:38, Harry Vennik a ?crit: > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Last months I have done a lot of thinking about aMSN2. > > > > > > > Especially about the GUI part of it. I don't know if everyone > > > > > > > followed the XML2GUI discussion. Anyway, I changed my mind on > > > > > > > that subject. I was convinced that, although XML2GUI solutions > > > > > > > did already exist, those would not fit our needs well enough, > > > > > > > so I started off designing a new solution, that would work for > > > > > > > us, and probably a lot of others. But still I did not feel > > > > > > > comfortable with that. It was just too much a matter of > > > > > > > reinventing the wheel, and somehow I could not really believe > > > > > > > that none of the existing solutions would fit. Especially XUL > > > > > > > seemed so close, that I decided to go back one step, and > > > > > > > reinvestigate the possibilities, and try to find out what I > > > > > > > missed the first time. Eventually I found the answer, and chose > > > > > > > Mozilla's XULRunner. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After that, I started off writing the attached document, to > > > > > > > specify: - What the aMSN2 project is meant to be > > > > > > > - The aims of aMSN2 > > > > > > > - The very basics of the technical structure of aMSN2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please read it all, and send your comments on this thread! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Harry > > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > >------ -- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web > > > > > > services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated > > > > > > technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere > > > > > > Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > > > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat > > > > > >=12164 2 _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >------ Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web > > > > > services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated > > > > > technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere > > > > > Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=1 > > > > >21642 _______________________________________________ > > > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >---- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > > security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to > > > > make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server > > > > v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo > > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121 > > > >642 _______________________________________________ > > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >-- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, > > > security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make > > > your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based > > > on Apache Geronimo > > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=12164 > > >2 _______________________________________________ > > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > > Geronimo > > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > > _______________________________________________ > > Amsn-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? > Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job > easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache > Geronimo > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Amsn-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Amsn-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/amsn-devel
