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David, But the whole thing is personal. Rick says, Don't read Margolis, because he has the wrong political loyalties, not because of what Margolis says on issue X. That's personal. And that's the issue. Should Rick have turned this into a personal matter? How far can you take this? The next time an article is posted by Scott Ritter should I send out a note reminding everyone that he's a Republican? What about Hans von Sponek? Does he have the right political loyalties? Or Ramsey Clark. Should we invite the anarchists to tell us that Clark's past casts his current political loyalties under a cloud, and that Workers World is really a front for the establishment, and therefore, we shouldn't read anything by Heather Cottin? I suppose they avoid her on their lists -- kind of like the Margolis of the anarchist's list. You're right. It shouldn't be personal. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2002 4:05 PM Subject: RE: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > --------------------------- > > > Stephen, > Granted, your point about Margolis is well taken. Yet, did you have to > turn this into a personal issue? > > David O.Q > > > > Stephen Gowans wrote: > > Rick, > > > > I've never read a single column written by Eric Margolis, and nor I have > > ever dipped into his book, (what is it called -- War at the Top of the > > World?), and that may be because, being Canadian, I'm more familiar with > > the > > Toronto Sun (Margolis's paper) than others are, and so I know what to > > expect. But if you keep going on about him, I swear I'll read him. > > > > You've created an impression, unintended I'm sure, which only those > > inclined > > to submit to intellectual bullying will tolerate: that only the > > incissive > > wit of the didactic Rick Rozoff can protect the dull and lumbering minds > > of > > the rest of us from being able to sort nonsense from truth, > > misinformation > > from untainted information. "No need to read Margolis. Rick's already > > done > > that for us. There are others, more worthy of reading, Rick says, who > > make > > the same points. What a handy guy Rick is to have around to do our > > thinking > > for us." > > > > Can one be blamed for expecting you'll next present a list of proscribed > > and > > prescribed journalists and columnists, followed by an enemies lists, > > comprised of names of people who have disagreed with you on some matter > > in > > the past, (but of course you'll do it in a courtly way, as is your wont, > > leaving the uttering of imprecations and name-calling to the snarling > > Mart, > > who has a penchant for that kind of thing)? > > > > Your importuning others not to post Margolis because it gives him > > credibility strikes me as nonsensical, and objectionable. Presumably, he > > was > > posted by whoever posted him because the poster liked Margolis's ideas > > on > > some topic, (and the post wasn't on the Balkans or socialism or Canada's > > health care system.) This blanket dismissing of people as agents of > > misinformation or for disagreeing with you on some other matter (the > > Balkans) and not for what they say on an ad rem matter amounts to > > nothing > > more than ad hominem argument, and is no different from dismissing > > others on > > grounds they're --- oh my gosh! -- communists, or anarchists, or > > authoritarian, or conspiracy theorists, or Wicans, or those crazy people > > fro > > m Emperor's Clothes. Maybe we can put everyone into boxes, and all carry > > on > > our discussions within our own ever shrinking, marginalized worlds, as > > we > > all descend into a paranoid lunacy about those who surround us being CIA > > operatives, agents of misinformation, and PsyOps specialists. Who is > > Margolis? ANTINATO's own Emanuel Goldstein, on whom we're to vent our > > two > > minutes of hate? > > > > Your intolerance, I fear, will only guarantee that what you can't > > tolerate > > prevails, like all those town fathers who thought they could protect > > young > > impressionable minds from the filth of Flaubert and Miller and Lawrence, > > or > > the subversiveness of Brecht, by urging librarians not to give "our > > enemies" credibility by carrying their books. > > > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rick Rozoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2002 1:25 AM > > Subject: Re: Cowboy Prez rides to rescue? - Columnist Eric Margolis > > [WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK] > > > > > > > HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK > > > --------------------------- > > > > > > Dear Friends, > > > For anyone not already acquainted with > > > the fact, Eric Margolis is a Western disinformation > > > agent who boasts, inter alia, of smuggling rockets > > > into the Afghan mujahedin in the 1980s and possessing > > > a host of intelligence contacts, including with the > > > CIA. > > > A quick Google search with the words "Eric Margolis > > > socialism" will demonstrate with whom we're dealing. > > > There is nothing remotely enlightened or progressive > > > about this individual, notwithstanding the fact that > > > his columns, from the very establishment Toronto Star > > > where he is the official foreign correspondent, have > > > been crossposted and linked on several US > > > 'progressive' sites fairly regularly of late. > > > In fact, the only time he criticizes Western > > > militarism, aside from goading it into being more > > > aggressive (e.g. "Stopping Europe's New Nazis" and > > > "Serbia Needs Moral Cleansing"), is when one of his > > > presumed co-religionists is under fire. > > > As such he operates on a personal, and hardly > > > political or principled, agenda. > > > Other people are making the same points he is on > > > Afghanistan, Iraq and so forth; there's no need to > > > provide this enemy of ours with more exposure and > > > authority than his contacts in the intelligence > > > community have already succeeded in doing. > > > Respectfully, > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Nicholas Camerota <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > <HR> > > > <html> > > > <PRE><A > > > HREF="HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK";>HTTP://WWW.STOPNATO.ORG.UK</A> > > > ---------------------------</PRE> > > > > > > <div style='background-color:'><FONT face="Verdana, > > > Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif"><STRONG><EM>Toronto > > > Sun</EM></STRONG></FONT><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, > > > Arial, Sans-serif"> March 24, 2002 </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, > > > Sans-serif" size=5><STRONG>Cowboy president rides to > > > the rescue </STRONG></FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif">By > > > ERIC MARGOLIS <EM>-- Contributing Foreign Editor > > > </EM></FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">A powerful car bomb explosion on Thursday > > > near the U.S. Embassy in Lima, killing nine and > > > wounding 30, was a disturbing prelude to the visit to > > > Peru this weekend of President George Bush, who has > > > vowed to "fight terrorism around the world." </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">Bush > > > declared he wouldn't be put off by "two-bit > > > terrorists." But the suspected bombers, the notorious > > > Sendero Luminoso, or Shining Path, are anything but > > > "two-bit" terrorists. The Sendero has battled fiercely > > > for three decades to impose a Marxist dictatorship on > > > Peru patterned on Enver Hoxha's crazy Stalinist > > > Albania and Pol Pot's nightmare Cambodia. </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Back in 1985, I was the first North > > > American journalist to interview Peru's then newly > > > elected president, Alan Garcia. I asked him how his > > > government was coping with the Sendero Luminoso, whose > > > guerrillas were terrorizing the Andes, waging urban > > > guerrilla warfare, and had almost brought the > > > government to its knees. </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">"I can > > > assure you," Garcia said, "the security situation is > > > completely under control." Moments later, two mortar > > > shells exploded outside the presidential palace. > > > Garcia shrugged and gave a sheepish smile. </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Peru's last president, the tough > > > authoritarian Alberto Fujimori, now in exile in Japan > > > and plotting a return, had nearly crushed the Sendero > > > and another dangerous Marxist guerrilla group, the > > > pro-Cuban Tupac Amaru. But after Fujimori was replaced > > > by the softer, more leftward leaning Alejandro Toledo, > > > Sendero regrouped and appears to be renewing its war > > > against the U.S.-backed government in Lima. </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">This > > > time, the Sendero is being fuelled by a steady inflow > > > of drug money. Following the example of Colombia's > > > Marxist FARC and ELN narco-guerrilla armies, the > > > Sendero earns tens of millions annually protecting > > > Peru's expanding cocaine industry. The Bush > > > administration's efforts to combat the drug trade in > > > Colombia through spraying toxic pesticides and > > > attacking processing labs have merely pushed the > > > underground drug industry across the jungled borders > > > into Ecuador and Peru. </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">TOTAL FAILURE </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">The > > > much-vaunted U.S. war on drugs has proven a total > > > failure in Latin America. The flow of cocaine and > > > heroin into the U.S. has not been reduced, in spite of > > > billions spent to block the flood of narcotics. > > > Ironically, the only nation where the U.S. war on > > > drugs did work was in Afghanistan - thanks to its > > > former Taliban regime. According to the UN drug > > > control agency, the Taliban virtually halted > > > cultivation and trade of heroin-producing opium > > > poppies. Afghanistan supplied 80% of Europe's heroin > > > and about 60% of America's. The American invasion and > > > overthrow of the Taliban handed power to the > > > Russian-backed Northern Alliance, which fully revived > > > the heroin trade and now controls 90% of drug exports. > > > </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, Monospace">In > > > Afghanistan, Bush's so-called war against terrorism > > > collided head-on with his war against drugs. The > > > latter lost. The Northern Alliance, the real power > > > behind the U.S.-installed Karzai regime in Kabul, pays > > > its fighters and buys its arms from the Russians with > > > heroin money. The U.S. simply turned a blind eye to > > > large-scale drug dealing by its new Afghan allies, > > > just as it did in South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, > > > Central America and, for years, Mexico. </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">The White House is now under increasing > > > pressure to increase the $1 billion in U.S. aid to > > > Colombia and switch from assisting a campaign against > > > coca producers to all-out combat operations against > > > FARC and ELN guerrillas. The Colombian government's > > > inept 136,000-man army has been unable to defeat the > > > FARC's and ELF's roughly 20,000 Marxist guerrillas, so > > > the U.S. is now being asked by Bogota for combat > > > troops and fleets of helicopters. An expanded war in > > > Colombia would quickly spill over into Ecuador, Peru > > > and possibly into Panama and Venezuela, all > > > economically stressed and politically shaky nations. > > > </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Growing instability and violence in > > > northern Latin America will challenge the Bush > > > administration's plans to launch a large crusade > > > against Iraq, and smaller ones against the diverse > > > Muslim groups opposed to American influence, or those > > > fighting for independence from oppressive rule - all > > > simplistically lumped together by Bush as > > > "terrorists." </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Just two weeks ago in Afghanistan, the U.S. > > > lost eight soldiers and dropped 3,300 expensive > > > precision bombs against will-o-the-wisp opponents in a > > > failed battle in the Shah-i-Kot Valley (shades of > > > Vietnam's IaDrang Valley battles). America's arsenals > > > are depleted; its military forces stretched thin - and > > > the crusade against the nefarious "axis of evil" > > > hasn't even been launched yet. </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV> </DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">The 19th century American cynic, Ambrose > > > Bierce, observed that Americans learn their geography > > > from wars. Six months before becoming president, > > > George Bush couldn't name the leader of Pakistan - > > > whom he today hails as a champion of democracy and > > > America's new best friend. This weekend, the > > > non-geographic president will begin to discover the > > > complexities of long-neglected Latin America. He will > > > no doubt discover the continent is rich in new > > > "terrorists," as the Lima bombing amply demonstrated. > > > </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Terrorists in Peru and Colombia. Plotting > > > Cubans. Islamic fanatics in Pakistan, Afghanistan, > > > Yemen, the Philippines, Indonesia, Somalia, Sudan, > > > Syria, Lebanon, Libya, the West Bank and Gaza, Iran, > > > Iraq, Bosnia, Kashmir, Indonesia, Malaysia, Nigeria, > > > Central Asia, Chechnya, Georgia, Saudi Arabia and the > > > Gulf states, Egypt and Paraguay. America's enemies are > > > everywhere. Even in Detroit and Brooklyn. </FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, > > > Monospace">Bush says he will defend America by > > > fighting them all. But, as Frederick the Great rightly > > > noted, "He who defends everything, defends nothing." > > > </FONT> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <P><STRONG><FONT face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, > > > Sans-serif">Eric can be reached by e-mail at > > > </FONT></STRONG><A > > > href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]";><STRONG><FONT > > > face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, > > > Sans-serif">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT></STRONG></A><FONT > > > face="Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Sans-serif"><STRONG>. > > > </STRONG></FONT></P> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV> > > > <DIV></DIV>. > > > <DIV></DIV><EM>Copyright © 2002, Canoe, a division of > > > Netgraphe Inc.</EM></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your > > > FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a > > > href='http://g.msn.com/1HM305401/13'>http://explorer.msn.com</a>.<br> > > > <PRE>--------------------------- > > > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST</PRE> > > > > > > > > > > > > </html> > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® > > > http://movies.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > --------------------------- > > > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------- > ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST > > > --------------------------- ANTI-NATO INFORMATION LIST ==^================================================================ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84x2u.a9617B Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^================================================================
