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[This goes to some mailing lists and also to the Usenet
newsgroups 'alt.society.revolution', 'alt.politics.socialism.
mao', 'swnet.politik', 'eunet.politics', 'alt.politics.
socialism', 'alt.politics.radical-left', 'alt.activism',
'alt.politics.communism', 'de.soc.politik.misc' and 'alt.
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wingers in general, and some others too.]
Hello again, "HnsomDevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, X-Yahoo-
Profile: "ziohazard",
You wrote, to the Free Paelstine mailing list, on Fri,
21 Jun 2002 06:19:51 EDT, subject "Re: PIC reports fake
pro-Zionist e-mails":
>Rolf, I wish you would show some of the compassion and
>understanding you have for jews toward Americans and
>people like Michael. You keep blabbing your mouth, but
>everyone understands that there are a small number of
>good Jews who sincerely follow their religion without
>the need to oppress the Palestinians. We all know that.
>However, the other 98% of Jews are the strongest backers
>of Israel. Have you ever happened to notice the strange
coincidence that the national flag of Israel contains the
>same star of david that is the symbol of Judaism? Isn't
>that peculiar? If there were no Jews, there would be no
>Israel.
>
>I'm disappointed in you - that you are not a gentleman
>enough to apologize to Michael. But I can tell you that
>you are wasted people's time with these pointless dis-
>cussions. Why not direct your verbal attention to some
>places where it will do some good - send a barrage of
>emails to the US media and government offices. Work for
>the cause - instead of sowing dissent within the ranks.
There are two possible explanations for your behaviour,
I think.
Either you're a Zionist agent, masquerading as an adherent
of the cause of Free Palestine and at the same time trying
to paint that cause out as being one of Nazi-Schmazi anti-
Semitism, in order to discredit it completely - one very
standard trick of those people's, all of whose skulls of
course, like those of their main masters and alive-keepers
since a long time back, the US imperialist leading swine,
will eventually get bashed in, spilling their brains with a
nice big SPLAT all over the sidewalk, to the jubilation of
practically everybody in all countries in the world.
Or else in fact you're just as ignorant as you make out to
be, meaning no harm but just being a victim of the ubiqui-
tous propaganda - no doubt particularly massive in the USA,
from which country you're posting - of the abovementioned
and their slimy mass media.
In favour of the first possibility might speak the snottiness
of your stupid blabbing (above). Also, it was quite interes-
ting to see the parallel Jew-baiting replies to me by as many
as three other writers on the Free Palestine list the same
day, last Friday 21 June, not quite as demonstratively nasty
as yours, though.
There were such replies also by:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, who signs himself sometimes as "Michael
Von Shearer" (yes, actually, with a capital "V" like that)
and somentimes as just "m" - the Michael whom you mentioned
above,
"amnehtt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and
bob luce <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
I shall reply to those writers too, "Free Palestine" Jew-
baiters #2 to #4 (Michael, amnehtt and Bob Luce the toneman-
7777, I mean), separately, though not bothering in those
cases to send my reply also to other lists or to newsgroups.
And those writers I shall refer, for some information on main
elementary facts concerning Zionism and anti-Semitism, to
this present reply of mine to you (with a few quotes below).
Now I in fact don't even know with any certainty whether you
four writers are really different and separate persons; the
peculiarities of the Internet makes it possible for one and
the same person to appear under several different names and
mail addresses too, of course; certain propagandists I know
about in other contexts since long are using that trick, and
I know none of you four writers in any closer way. I shall
presume anyway that you all *are* different and real people.
Living here in Sweden and not being familiar with the actual
conditions in the USA (from where those others were posting
too, I suppose), I absolutely cannot discount the possibility
that as many as four of you (relatively) eddicated Amurricans
(that's what you are, isn't it?) may be so utterly ignorant
of the most elementary of these fact that all of you, or per-
haps some of you, actually believe that which you're writing.
An assessment of this, a really well-informed judgement on
what it is that makes you people write like that, this I must
leave to others who likewise live in the USA or in some other
way know better than I what levels of ignorance on these sub-
jects, on the part of various groups of people there, are
conceivable.
I don't mean to say that I think awareness of some basic
facts of life, of politics etc, is necessarily higher, in ge-
neral, among Swedes than among people in the USA. In certain
respects, as far as I understand, the culture typical of the
USA has some advantages over that typical of Sweden. We have
some characteristic prevalent idiocies in this country too.
But a friend of mine who visited the USA some years ago said
he was surprised at the ignorance on some matters that he
found in some circles among ordinary people there. Also, Bob
Blane, writing on the Free Palestine list, recently asked me:
"Please spread the word in Sweden on how the truth can't get
out in the USA because of Zionist control of the US news
media".
I replied, "And this is the same here too". But perhaps it
*is* even worse in your country.
So, what is it that you so far have not yet gotten to know
about - in case the second possibility I mentioned above is
the reason for your present standpoint - and which, today, is
making you and your three "think-alikes" into unconscious
Jew-baiters, by this harming, as I must tell you, the cause
of Free Palestine, the just cause of a democratic state in
all of Palestine?
Perhaps this is a lot of things.
I wrote to Jew-baiter #2, or "Mika-Eel", as I thought it
could be suitable to call him, that he as a "submarine wrigg-
ler" perhaps didn't know shit about the actual conditions up
here on dry land and that I would try to explain to him, as
well as I could, what were the most elementary flowers-and-
bees facts here. One thing one needs to know about, I think,
is the prevalence of capitalism and imperialism in this world.
I cannot go into much detail about that now. Some good and in
fact quite advanced stuff about that you can find at various
websites - search under "Marx", "Lenin" and "Mao Zedong", for
instance.
Some basic things I shall inform you about, rather briefly,
simply by bringing a few quotes, from a 1 May flyer of mine
(in translation) which I posted earlier, from Sami (eWilder-
ness), who agreed with me in the discussion with you people
and one somewhat longer from Nicole Solomon, who wrote a
very well-informed article indeed (as fas as I can make out)
precisely on questions concerning support in the USA for the
cause of Free Palestine.
To recapitulate, our discussion of course started out with
the nasty phenomenon of that obviously pro-Zionist hacker
who somehow managed to sedt dozens or even hundreds of mails,
all with some really stupid text or other making Zionist pro-
paganda, in the names of several subscribers to the Free Pa-
lestine list, and then this was commented on in a message
from some institute or other (the "PIC") forwarded, uncommen-
ted on, quite ironically, by some people who're trying to
make others believe that they're "Marxists", but which star-
ted out with:
>PIC. 19 June 2002. Beware: Jewish[!!] hackers flood net
>with faked mails
>
>Jewish[!!] and pro-Zionist hackers have been sending out
>racist, offensive and pro-Israeli emails which appear to
>come from the addresses of people sympathetic to Palestinian
>rights.
A Nazi-Schmazi provocation, of course. How could those "PIC"
Nazis (or Zionists, or both of the above) know the least bit
about *the religion* of the hackers? Here was that old trick
again of trying to identify anti-Zionism with Jew-baiting.
This I attacked, of course. And you, and (present) Jew-baiter
#2, Michael, too, replied, with several mails by both of
you, defending the anti-Semitism in that forwarded "PIC"
message as "a quite natural thing".
In your mail quoted above you "argued", Hnsom:
>If there were no Jews, there would be no Israel[!!]
and even blabbed (after having maintained that *I*, who was
trying to enlighten you, was "blabbing"!) this piece of "ad-
vice" to me:
>Work for the cause - instead of sowing dissent within the
>ranks.
The "cause" of discrimination on the grounds of race or reli-
gion I certainly will *not* work for, of course, but will
continue to *combat*, to the best of my ability.
And sow dissent within those ranks which you clearly mean
- those of people wittingly or unwittingly making propaganda
for such discrimination - this I shall try to do too. Well-
meaning but ignorant people I want to help *leaving* those
ranks, in which they should not remain, and will not remain
either, once they've understood some elementary things.
"If there were no Jews, there would be no Israel"?
You might just as well say,
"If there were no white people, there would be no Israel".
Which would be wrong too, of course, but which would point
somehow anyway to that fact that "Israel" was created, by
the governments of the "rich", exploiting countries, whose
populations largely have white skins, as a military bastion
for use in their massive oppression and exploitation of the
poorer countries in the world, countries where the people
are mainly black-, brown- or yellow-skinned.
White-skinned people, most of whom to a considerable extent
- whether they like this or not, and I'm certain that most
of them very much dislike it - are living off some crumbs of
those giant superprofits which the ruling capitalists are
extracting from the many and populous internationally-oppres-
sed countries, of course in general are more liable to fall
for the various types of racist propaganda poured over every-
body by the slimy media, anti-black racism, Zionism, anti-
Semitism (that last having certain roots in earlier, above
all, European hisory, of course), etc.
Some "ordinary" people here in Sweden and some other European
contries, and in North America, those the Zionism propagan-
dists have a certain chance of "convincing". And some "ordi-
nary" believers in Judaism too, possibly a "better" chance
than Christian or atheist whites in general too - how this
really is I cannot tell more precisely - while "convincing"
the "ordinary" South American, African or Asian, that's
pretty tough for those propagandists.
It of course was when the many countries in Asia, Africa and
South America had managed to get a little more influence than
before in the UN, in 1975, that the UN General Assembly de-
cided on that very correct resolution (later retracted again)
which pointed out that "Israel" was (still is, of course) the
racist regime in occupied Palestine and that Zionism was (it
still is) a form of racialism and racial discrimination.
But it would be just as wrong to blame Zionism, "Israel" etc,
on "whiteys" in general as it would be to blame it on Jews
in general. The *capitalists and imperialists* are the ones
to blame for it.
Employing your term "Americans" above - which in your usage
denotes, it seems clear from the context, *not* really Ame-
ricans, that is, not really those who live on the American
continent but only those in one country on that continent,
people in the USA (or citizens of that country) - one might
also say:
"If there were no Americans, there would be no Israel.
Just as wrong as the other two statements of the same type,
of course, but somewhow pointing to the fact that it's the
*ruling* "Americans", the US imperialists, who since long
are those most responsible for keeping that racist state in
existence in Palestine - this in their capacity as *interna-
tional gendarme* for the *entire* imperialist bourgeoisie
(including for instance those smaller-time ruling swine here
in "my" country, Sweden).
The ones in the USA who are just as completely bribed by the
ruling persons, or just as ignorant, (or both of the above,
or perhaps even more so) as some here in Sweden too, those
are the ones I've called "Amurricans" above. After I - hope-
fully - have convinced both you and the other Jew-baiters on
the Free Paelestine list #2, #3 and #4, of the big error in
your thinking, I shall use another term to denote you.
SOME FLOWERS-AND-BEES STUFF ON "ISRAEL", ON
ZIONISM AND ON ANTI-SEMITISM
Here are the quotes I promised you, with information which
I think is bery basic and relevant in this context and whose
correctness you will be able to check on in various ways:
[QUOTE, from a 1 May leaflet of mine, posted in translation
01.05.2002 and later to the Free Palestine as 'UNITE! Info
#171en: "Rich" countries and "Israel"':]
1. WHY "ISRAEL" WAS CREATED, AND WHY IT'S STILL
SO IMPORTANT FOR ALL IMPERIALISTS TO SUPPORT
IT TO THE VERY LAST
The racist state of "Israel", which now occupies Pa-
lestine, was created, in 1948, by a joint action of
the governments of all the "rich" states in the world,
in order to function as a military bastion of theirs,
in the strategically important region of the Middle
East, for the continued oppression and continued ex-
treme exploitation of all the poorer countries.
The very "point" of that "state" from the begining on
was for it to constantly engage in aggression and
terror, not only against the vast majority of the
original inhabitants of Palestine but against all
other peoples in that region too. It was intended to
function as a killer instrument of the imperialists',
a particular scourge of theirs against the 200 mil-
lion Arabic-speaking people who live in or close to
the Middle East, a mad dog to perpetrate aggressive
war after aggressive war.
This is what this very particular kind of state has
done too, earlier above all in 1948, 1956, 1967 and
1982. And this is what it's once more doing today, in
early/mid-2002. Against the atrocities perpetrated by
it now, people are protesting everywhere.
The imperialists with all their propaganda resources
are continuing to say what they have said in the last
50 years and more, that "Israel" was created in order
"to offer protection for" believers in the Jewish
faith from that racist persecution which they have
been subjected to since centuries back and still are
being subjected to in many countries, and in particu-
lar from such genocide against them as was perpetra-
ted by the Nazis during World War II.
This is another of the big lies of the imperialists.
The rulers of the "rich" countries in reality never
were against racist persecution, nor against genocide.
On the contrary, both of these things are an integral
part of the present social "order" in the world, that
of capitalism "developed into" imperialism.
...
[END OF QUOTE]
[QUOTE, from Sami, "eWilderness" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, pos-
ting to Free Palestine list Fri, 21 Jun 2002 06:31:01 -0700,
subject "Re: PIC reports fake pro-Zionist e-mails":]
I agree with Rolf.
Despite clear textual racist and adversarial incite-
ment embodied in "holy books," we MUST methodically
exclude specific faiths--or intellectually pathologi-
cal perception thereof--from the political formulas.
Not doing so leads us directly or indirectly into
sectarianism, and thus a vicious circle is perpetua-
ted.
We must be the ones who stop this ever-growing all-
consuming vicious sectarian circle by focusing on po-
litics and not religion.
eWilderness
[END OF QUOTE]
[QUOTE, from posting to the Free Palestine list by nicho-
lasd108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, reproducing an article by
Nicole Solomon, on Sun, 23 Jun 2002 22:12:24 -0000, subject
"Fwd: Co-opting Solidarity: Privilege in the Palestine Soli-
darity Movement"; the whole article said to be on the website
http://www.onwardnewspaper.org/archives/2-2002/solomon.html:]
For instance, anti-Semitic propaganda by the "left"
creates an unsafe environment for Jewish radicals.
Where do white goy activists in the United States, at
a distinct racial/ethnic privilege over Jews and with
no understanding of the worldwide historical legacy of
anti-Jewish oppression, get off burning a star of
David, a traditional symbol of Judaism and Jewish
people, as occurred on April 22? What does that mean
to them? What does it mean to the media, the cops,
their fellow white goy protesters? Their fellow Arab
and Muslim protesters? Their fellow Jewish protes-
ters?
Anti-Semitism can and will be exploited by pro-occupa-
tion forces. Anti-Semitic or anti-Jewish statements
play into the hands of Zionists, who rely on keeping
the lines between the state of Israel, current Israeli
policy, Judaism and Zionism as hazy as possible. It is
crucial for us to keep the distinctions between them
clear. A statement by Jews Against The Occupation
points out that "Judaism, a cultural and religious
identity, is not the same as Zionism, a political
movement. Criticisms of the state of Israel or the
idea of a Jewish state, whether put forth by Jews or
non-Jews, do not constitute anti-Semitism. Equating
Judaism and Zionism serves the Zionist agenda by pas-
sing off all criticisms of the Israeli State as "anti-
Jewish." White goyim who attempt to pass off anti-
Jewish statements as merely critiques of Israel also
contribute to this dynamic.
[END OF QUOTE]
This last, from an article which I found very good, speaks
very directly to you, doesn't it, Jew-baiter #1.
You absolutely should distance yourself, in thought and also
by one or several postings to the Free Palestine list, from
your behaviour so far on this point. And help us others con-
vince Jew-baiters #2-4 also. I urge you to do this as soon as
only possible.
Rolf M.
Malmö, Sweden
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