I don't know if anyone can begin to understand the effect of bees visiting flowers of GM crops!!!
Jim Friedler -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip Smith Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 10:23 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER Humans did not evolve living in square boxes either, but it seems to be working out OK. I am only able to think like a human, as do those who believe we have done damage to bee society. Poisoning(by pesticides, I assume) is much more an acute problem rather than one that has affected bee evolution. There's no question that the mix of flowers has changed over time. I don't know what you're suggesting in regard to GMO's. Here's an interesting question. What portion of the worldwide honeybee population lives in square boxes? Philip Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: Nadean Summers To: Apple-Crop Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:36 PM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER Bees did not evolve living in square boxes, and for a human to believe he can think like a bee is probably somewhat shortsighted also that is only one adjustment in the way they have to live. It may not be mistreatment but what about poisoning, loss of native flowering habitat,genetically altered crops, etc,etc. Whether good or bad they have had to go through some substantial changes since man started dealing with them. Jim Friedler -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip Smith Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:43 PM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER I find it difficult to believe that giving bees a square house to live in constitutes some sort of maltreatment. Were I a bee, I'd be tickled pink that someone had provided a roomy, fairly tight house complete with foundations upon which I could build a comb. Philip Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: alan surprenant To: [email protected] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:56 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER bees, bees, bees, so much on our minds these days.... and well they should be (no pun intended). for those with the inclination and the time (perhaps a rainy day), a small booklet i read many years ago has altered my whole relationship to the bees in my orchard. The Bee Lectures (1922?) given by Rudolf Steiner to a gathering of beekeepers in germany. In these lectures Steiner predicts the situation(s) we find ourselves in today with the bees. the questions raised by D. Del Boca are good ones and here are several more raised by Steiner to the bee keepers of his day. (1) what are the long-term effects of 'forcing' a spiral living entity into the square box shape of the modern day hive? ever watch a swarm? or uncover a bee hive in a tree trunk? watch how cells are created? all spirals. (2) what are the effects of raising bees primarily for honey production (as related to feeding, breeding queens, how we harvest honey, the use of miticides etc). (3) if indeed our manipulation of the bee does result in lowering immunity, what will the effects of that be? (i think of varoa and tracheal mites, of hive collapse). i'm not trying to open up a debate on who's right and who's wrong about the reasons our bees are in the state they are now. i'm trying to add to the information and understanding that we all have to work with while dealing with this situatiion. the health of the bees is of utmost importance, we all know that already. what we can do as growers, researchers, and/or beekeepers to help the bees,is for me, the important task at hand. thank you(this list serve)for the information on keeping water avaliable and the effects temps have on pollination and bee activity. alan surprenant brook farm orchard ashfield, massachusetts ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Apple-Crop" <[email protected]> To: "Apple-Crop" <[email protected]> CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 16:21:40 -0700 > >And what of the previous question regarding predation on honey bees >by wasps and yellow jackets, hornets? > >A few more questions while we have the topic: > >Is it true that honey bees are being genetically morphed to be >single-purpose creatures (super-pollinators); that is they no longer >are capable of multiple functions such as making honey, feeding the >queen, maintaining the hives, extending the species, etc.? > >What is the impact on the immune system of honey bees from the >stress of being trucked coast to coast in 18-wheelers, industrial >style, by large, commercial beekeepers and being fed only high >fructose corn syrup enroute? > >I know that applicators restrict the time of their entry into fields >being pollinated to minimize kills, but what can you tell us, in a >larger way, about the genetic or colonial impacts of pesticides and >genetically altered organisms that have been artificially spliced >into many field crops that bees pollinate? > >Thanks, >D. Del Boca >N.W. Washington > >On Friday, May 11, 2007, at 01:40 PM, Kim Flottum wrote: > >>Wasps and yellow jackets do essentially no pollination....they may >>visit a flower on occasion, but because they have essentially no >>hair on their bodies, they don't pick up and transfer pollen from >>one flower to another; nor do they return to their nest with pollen >>on their bodies and get it transferred inhive to another bee who >>will vist another apple blossom. There are solitary bees that are >>efficient pollinators, but seldom are there enough of them in an >>orchard to make a significant dent....unless they are brought in >>intentionally...the Blue Orchard bee, the mason bee...those that >>are managed specifically for this purpose. >> >> >>Kim Flottum >>Editor, BeeCulture >>623 West Liberty Street >>Medina, Ohio 44256 >>V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 >>Fax - 330.725.5624 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>www.BeeCulture.com >> >> >> ><image.tiff> >> >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:04 PM >>To: Apple-Crop >>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: Re: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: bee activity >> >> >>Interesting topic. >> >>How much pollination of tree fruit is done by wasps and yellow >>jackets and do they have the same water requirements? Seems I am >>seeing more of them than bees. Are they predators of our >>pollinating bees? >>Thanks, >>D. Del Boca >>N.W. Washington >> >>On Friday, May 11, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Kim Flottum wrote: >> >>Some apple varieties will produce and shed pollen earlier in the >>day when the temperature rises above 85 or so, and the humidity is >>low. One thing to check is early morning, when new blossoms open, >>before they have a chance to dehise. I haven't done much with >>apples in many years, but used to a lot, and found this to be >>true...but I don't recall the varieties. What led to this was a >>grower saying our bees weren't doing their job...so we were out >>before dawn, measuring flight activity when it began, and what >>trees it was on....just fyi. >>And you are exactly correct on providing water as close to the bees >>as reasonable. One caution...long ago it was customary to empty >>sprayers in orchards when done spraying....although this isn't the >>norm, it can, if practiced, be deadly if bees need, and don't have >>other water. Another fyi. >> >> >>Kim Flottum >>Editor, BeeCulture >>623 West Liberty Street >>Medina, Ohio 44256 >>V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 >>Fax - 330.725.5624 >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>www.BeeCulture.com >> >> >> >><image.tiff> >> >> >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fleming, >>William >>Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 10:34 AM >>To: Apple-Crop >>Subject: RE: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: bee activity >> >> >>Not sure on the pollen aspect but when the temps rise bees start >>spending more time hauling water to the hive rather than foraging. >>Best thing a grower can do is make sure a water supply the bees can >>access without drowning is close by. >> >>Bill Fleming >>Montana State University >>Western Ag Research Center >>580 Quast Ln >>Corvallis, MT 59828 >>(406)961-3025 >> >> >><image.tiff> >> >> >>From: [email protected] >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Franklyn >>Carlson >>Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 5:46 AM >>To: Apple-Crop >>Subject: *Potential Spam* Apple-Crop: bee activity >> >> >>--> >>Would like to get some comments & feedback regarding temps and bee >>activity during a real hot bloom period. Here in central >>Massachusetts we have had temps in the 88 degree range for the last >>3 to 4 days. Have not seen much bee activity in McIntosh at all. We >>see some activity in the Cortland, Delicious etc. Growers that get >>bees from different suppliers are noticing the same thing. Can it >>get too hot and make the pollen unattractive to the bees? >> >>Frank Carlson >> >>Carlson Orchards, Inc. >> >>Harvard, MA >> >> >>No virus found by AVG in this incoming email. >>Checked by AVG. >>Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/797 - Release Date: >>5/10/2007 5:10 PM >> >> >> >> >>No virus found by AVG in this incoming email. >>Checked by AVG. >>Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.6.8/800 - Release Date: >>5/11/2007 7:34 PM >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PC Magazines 2007 editors choice for best Web mailaward-winning Windows Live Hotmail. ------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements . Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent "official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. No virus found in this outgoing message. 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