Bill, I know I'm rollin' the dice but as long as the trees stay alive I'm willing to loose from time to time with weather
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu>wrote: > I agree Hugh, this might be one of the best places to grow HC as long as > we get by spring frosts, summer hail and single digit first fall frost. > > I see very little of the bitter pit that seems to plague HC growers > elsewhere. The two times I've lost HC crops due to spring frost didn't seem > to throw them into alternate bearing either. > > > > *Bill Fleming* > > *Montana State University* > > *Western Ag Research Center* > > *580 Quast Lane* > > *Corvallis, MT 59828* > > > > *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: > apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] *On Behalf Of *Hugh Thomas > *Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2014 4:40 PM > > *To:* Apple-crop discussion list > *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices > > > > Bill, > > On elevation - I was talking to a big name guy in apple research when I > attended the hort show and "Honeycrisp Experience" in Washington recently. > I asked him about our elevation here in Montana (3500') and the effect of > temperature drops of 40-50 degrees every night in the summer. His response > was, "you're are gonna' grow the best Honeycrisp in the western U.S." > > > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 11:03 AM, David A. Rosenberger <da...@cornell.edu> > wrote: > > We first planted Honeycrisp trees at our research lab in 1995, and we've > added more HC in various plantings over the years. From my perspective, we > are a bit too far south (90 miles north of Manhattan) to get consistently > high quality with Honeycrisp. Some years they color well and taste great, > but in many years the quality is only fair (at least compared to the best > quality Honeycrisp I have eaten), and color can be unimpressive (to put it > kindly!). Over-cropping HC is definitely one way to kill eating quality, > but I think that harvesting prematurely is a close second. In some years, > Honeycrisp show quite a bit of preharvest drop in our region, perhaps > because of water stress created by high temperatures between late July and > August. In any case, many folks have difficulty delaying harvest to > achieve optimum quality when apples worth a dollar each are dropping in > large quantities. Folks in northeastern NY (Champlain Valley) can grow > excellent HC and they initially reported that they did not have drop > problems. However, significant drop also occurred in that region after an > exceptional late-July heat wave several years ago. I'm not certain if > anyone has really done the definitive study on how daytime temps, nighttime > temps, water stress, rootstocks, crop load, spray programs (including > foliar nutrients), and maturity at harvest interact to create either > exceptionally good or exceptionally bad Honeycrisp. We all have some > general concepts from observations, but it would be nice to know the > acceptable ranges of the multiple variables that impact fruit quality > (i.e., good-tasting) fruit. > > > > Honeycrisp was my favorite apples for a number of years, but eventually I > tired of buying "crunch" at the expense of the more complex flavors that > exist in other cultivars. At this point, I'd compare Honeycrisp to a modest > quality champagne (some folks always go for the bubbles) whereas better > cultivars have the more complex flavor profiles one would expect in an > expensive Cabernet. Currently, my personal favorites are freshly harvested > SnapDragon, SweeTango, and (perhaps a surprise here) Pixie Crunch. All > three of these cultivars have both crunch and complex flavors, especially > at harvest when the aroma volatiles that provide much of the flavor > complexity are at their best. For a variety of reasons, I doubt that any > of these cultivars will ever rise to the level of Honeycrisp in consumer > consciousness. First, HC was the first cultivar to stake out totally new > territory in the apple market because of its unique texture, and being > first has advantages. (Many folks still refer to paper tissues as > "Kleenex".) Second, good HC hold up well in storage and eating quality of > HC can be excellent after 6 months of storage whereas my three favorites > noted above all tend to lose some of their flavor volatiles during storage. > SnapDragon and SweeTango are still good apples out of storage, just not > quite as good as they are at harvest. The managed cultivar status of > SweeTango and SnapDragon almost ensure that they will never gain the > world-wide visibility that HC has, although those who can find them in > stores will hopefully get a more consistent quality apple than has been the > case with HC. Finally, most consumers right now seem to want "sweet, > juicy, crunch" and are less selective when it comes to the nuances of good > apple flavors. Thus, I would guess that those of us who have experienced > top-quality fruit and can differentiate between "exceptional" and "good" > fruit will always be a minority in the market place. > > > > Now, if someone can come up with an easy-to-grow cultivar that has both > the HC crunch factor AND complex aroma volatiles that persist through 6 to > 10 months of CA storage, that will be the apple that will ultimately > displace HC in the marketplace. > > > > **************************************************************************** > > Dave Rosenberger, Professor of Plant Pathology > > Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 > > Office: 845-691-7231 Cell: 845-594-3060 > http://pppmb.cals.cornell.edu/people/dave-rosenberger > > **************************************************************************** > > > > > On Jan 30, 2014, at 11:52 AM, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu> > wrote: > > > > Back when I grew apples in North Central Washington they always said you > couldn't grow good apples down south in the Columbia Basin so hardly anyone > did. Then someone came up with idea of overhead cooling during the hottest > days, the Gala and Honeycrisp planting boom started. Huge plantings in the > Basin and their efficiency of scale flooded the market putting many growers > in the traditional apple growing areas of Washington out of business. > > > > Cooling addressed the problem caused by 100° plus days but did little for > cool nighttime temperatures which I feel are essential for growing a good > tasting apple. Apples from the Basin of all types can look beautiful but > taste foul, sort of ruins the market for growers nationwide. Fortunately > the current trend is removing apples and planting wine grapes. Also because > of new food safety legislation surface canal and irrigation ditch water > isn't allowed to get on the fruit, overhead cooling water must be treated > or come from a well. I suspect that even more apples will have to come out > due to this. Probably good for all of us to get inferior fruit off the > market. > > > > Here where I now live in western Montana at 3000 feet we can grow > excellent Honeycrisp, it's almost like they were bred for the area. Night > time temperatures are almost always in the 50°s no matter how hot the day. > > > > > > > > *Bill Fleming* > > *Montana State University* > > *Western Ag Research Center* > > *580 Quast Lane* > > *Corvallis, MT 59828* > > > > *From:* apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [ > mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net>] > *On Behalf Of *George Brinson > *Sent:* Thursday, January 30, 2014 6:19 AM > *To:* Apple-crop discussion list > *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices > > > > Same story here on the east coast of Canada ........ maybe it is the > climate in which it is grown. HoneyCrisp tastes horrible!! > > > > George Brinson > > > > *From:* David Doud <david_d...@me.com> > > *Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2014 11:35 PM > > *To:* Apple-crop discussion list <apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> > > *Subject:* Re: [apple-crop] honeycrisp prices > > > > " how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste good?" > > > > Unfortunately, it's not that hard - We were visiting our son in San Diego > in October 2012 (no fruit here, might as well take a trip) and visited > Whole Foods, actually caught an upper level produce employee and chatted - > he really wanted to turn me onto HoneyCrisp, there was a big display of 4" > ones - insipid - and not that good of texture either - On to Trader Joe's, > big display of nasty green 2.25-2.75" HoneyCrisp, obviously off overcropped > trees - wish I would have taken pictures, but I was on vacation... > > > > The ones in the local stores recently have been respectable @ $2.49 to > $2.99/pound > > > > It's hard to grow good ones - twice the price but half the pack-out - a > real temptation to lower standards - > > > > HoneyCrisp has generated apple excitement like none other in the last 30 > years and has reset the bar - it is the new standard by which other > varieties are measured and the traditional varieties don't measure up - > Jonagored may compete in its week, but there's no comparison a couple weeks > later - > > > > David > > > > > > > > On Jan 29, 2014, at 8:05 PM, Shoemaker, William H wrote: > > > > Now the question is, how did anyone find a Honeycrisp that doesn't taste > good? Is it the variety? Is it how its grown? Is it postharvest handling? > Is it all the above? In our markets around Chicago it is really difficult > to find high quality apples of any variety from Washington. They look > beautiful, but lack flavor. I think Washington growers produce great > apples. They don't show up here. I've had excellent Honeycrisp from local > orchards in northern Illinois. In southern IL, they aren't as good. We get > Fuji from MI in our local Aldi that are cheap and outstanding to eat. I > think local Red Delicious are just delicious. But then, everyone knows, Red > Delicious is a terrible apple. Why do we have so much acreage of this > apple?!! > > > > Bill > > *William H. Shoemaker* > > *Retired fruit and vegetable horticulturist* > > *University of Illinois* > > wshoe...@illinois.edu > ------------------------------ > > > > The problem is, poorly grown HC are just not good tasting apples. They > need a cold winter, heavy thinning to avoid over cropping, calcium sprays > every 4-6 days and careful handling. /// > > > > On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Steven Bibula <sbib...@maine.rr.com > > wrote: > > In Hannaford (a major regional supermarket) today, all apples were 99 > cents per pound, except some smallish, mediocre-looking honeycrisp at $2.49 > per pound. How long can an apple coast in the premium price range on > little more than the name? > > > > Steven Bibula > > Plowshares Community Farm > > 236 Sebago Lake Road > > Gorham ME 04038 > > 207.239.0442 > > www.plowsharesmaine.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > > > > _______________________________________________ > apple-crop mailing list > apple-crop@virtualorchard.net > http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop > >
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