Hi Anil, Dave;
Anil, you're numbers make sense to me, and I definitely see reasonable results
when sending a constant bitrate, a bit above the shape/enforced rate.
The scenario I'm testing may not be reasonable, perhaps, but it's concerning to
me. I'm testing aggressive and bursty flows. In these scenarios the queue
utilization is not consistent, and often drains to 0 packets, which means the
algorithm isn't eligible to drop for another interval's worth of time (100ms),
at which point a burst of packets may be queued, and latency then spikes.
The inconsistent traffic pattern results in wildly inconsistent average latency
per packet. I suppose you could argue that's expected (inconsistent in,
inconsistent out...) but I just don't like relying on uncontrollable external
factors. Perhaps this is an area where fq_codel would perform better?
Dave, What does HTB stand for? I'm not familiar with it.
I suppose it's possible I'm seeing what you describe; count increments high, to
the point where it's more likely to drain the queue, which then causes us to
enter the interval wait time before re-engaging.
I definitely see more consistent results at 4Mbps+
--Jeff
________________________________
/dev/jeff_weeks.x2936
Sandvine Incorporated
________________________________
From: Agarwal, Anil [anil.agar...@viasat.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2016 8:43 AM
To: Dave Täht; Jeff Weeks; aqm@ietf.org
Cc: c...@lists.bufferbloat.net; co...@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: RE: [Codel] [aqm] codel with low shape rates
Dave, Jeff,
A quick simulation of Codel with a single queue, with -
link rate = 100 kbps,
packet size = 500 bytes,
traffic rate = 110 kbps, CBR, unresponsive
shows queue size stabilizes at 1-3 packets.
Count remains at 1.
Queueing delays are 50-86 ms, but that is understandable, given that the packet
transmission time is 40 ms.
The algorithm changes state frequently (every ~400 ms), but that is how it
works.
Jeff - what scenario are you studying?
Anil
-----Original Message-----
From: Codel [mailto:codel-boun...@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Dave Täht
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:58 PM
To: Jeff Weeks; aqm@ietf.org
Cc: c...@lists.bufferbloat.net; co...@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Codel] [aqm] codel with low shape rates
On 1/18/16 2:11 PM, Jeff Weeks wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I'm wondering if there's some data on Codel with low shape rates?
>
> In particular, I'm talking about in the kbps ranges.
We recently did some testing of several codel variants at very low rates
(2mbit/384kbit asymmetric). One flent dataset is here:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__snapon.cs.kau.se_-7Ed_384k_&d=BQIGaQ&c=jcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk&r=FyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=MfiDsixBXXTDIMhuHe3aefVdgD3p1luGVD6HQAWZt7A&s=dlQhigd0CU9PuDq2KSsG-73u2A01K4KEagZVPJzuYc8&e=
There are a couple others. I didn't take the time to create graphs and collate
results before leaving for christmas vacation, the closest I came to that
w/graphs was this post:
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.bufferbloat.net_pipermail_cake_2016-2DJanuary_001808.html&d=BQIGaQ&c=jcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk&r=FyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=MfiDsixBXXTDIMhuHe3aefVdgD3p1luGVD6HQAWZt7A&s=sF1-9PiJpAY41luL-EjJxf2SFPSNNEkILZ0AizH9PL0&e=
pie was miserable, also. (it has a 10k estimator needed)
>
> In my investigation, it seems as though the algorithm can't control latency
> as effectively.
>
> For one, the algorithm requires 2 packets in the queue to operate, but at a
> low shape rate, it's highly likely that all packets in the queue will have
> high latency, so 'count' will begin to ramp up... but conversely, it's also
> likely that we drain the queue, and then leave the drop state (and wont
> re-enter it for at least an interval's worth of time (100ms)).
This is not quite true - it's bytes, not packets. An MTU's worth of bytes is
the std codel limit before switching off.
Additionally, when htb is used, there is at least an htb quantum's worth of
packets that queue also. (the "cake" variant does not have this problem. After
I published the bcake vs cake results above, the cake code got improved)
> Effectively, we get an oscillation of "in drop state, out of drop state", and
> we're not in the drop state for long enough to ramp up count, because the
> queue itself (proportional to the shape rate) isn't very big.
I don't see this, we generally end up with a persistently >1 packet queue with
two or more flows going. I see is a worse problem where the basic attributes of
keeping a connection up and things like slow start, and with multiple flows,
result in count climbing excessively high, especially with ecn in use.
More research at sub 2mbit speeds is needed. Am pretty happy with things in the
4mbit to 40gbit range.
> Are there way to combat this, or am I misinterpreting a portion of the
> algorithm?
The simplest way to get decent results is to set target slightly more than the
MTU at the speed you are running at. e.g. 1Mbit = target 13ms.
This is essentially what the sqm-scripts and cake do - and the results are
still less than fully desirable.
(I would like very much to have an aqm that was knobless at these speeds. Most
of the work on trying to improve matters at these rates is in the multitude of
"cake" variants)
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
> ________________________________
> /dev/jeff_weeks.x2936
> Sandvine Incorporated
>
> _______________________________________________
> aqm mailing list
> aqm@ietf.org<mailto:aqm@ietf.org>
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mail
> man_listinfo_aqm&d=BQIGaQ&c=jcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fP
> k&r=FyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=MfiDsixBXXTDIMhuHe3a
> efVdgD3p1luGVD6HQAWZt7A&s=pDBHTaIvFZbGIz6xTyl2PwKyBA7KXP-nL5w-nIfT4gc&
> e=
>
_______________________________________________
Codel mailing list
co...@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:co...@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.bufferbloat.net_listinfo_codel&d=BQIGaQ&c=jcv3orpCsv7C4ly8-ubDob57ycZ4jvhoYZNDBA06fPk&r=FyvaklKYrHaSCPjbBTdviWIW9uSbnxdNSheSGz1Jvq4&m=MfiDsixBXXTDIMhuHe3aefVdgD3p1luGVD6HQAWZt7A&s=aQhUguCaMy2FpF_zUnTrqGCflO0G-FVhW2L8LT9NyDs&e=
_______________________________________________
aqm mailing list
aqm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/aqm
