Then your issue is with how needs basis was being applied to IPv4 3 years ago (and perhaps you also have issues with how it is currently being applied), rather than needs basis in general.
Thus, your continued railing against all needs testing distracts from rather than enabling work towards an improvement to IPv4 needs basis that might resolve your issue. Arguing to eliminate needs testing creates a binary argument where those of us who believe needs testing is essential to good stewardship vs. those who want to eliminate it altogether. On the other hand, working towards a relaxed set of needs tests that meet the needs of more of the community is something I think most of the community would get behind. Previous experience has shown this to be generally true. Owen > On Dec 16, 2014, at 10:10 , Steven Ryerse <srye...@eclipse-networks.com> > wrote: > > My experience was that I applied to ARIN for a /32 IPv6 block, a /22 IPv4 > block (the minimum at the time), and an ASN number. The online application > asked me some questions which I answered. Once it was processed I was > notified that the IPv6 block and the ASN number were allocated to me, and the > IPv4 block allocation was denied. This was about 3 years ago and at the time > I thought the questions I was asked were reasonable. I don’t recall having > to provide anything else except maybe a bill from my upstream provider. > > I don’t have an issue with asking an applicant some basic questions but I > have a strong issue with using the answers to those questions to deny an > applicant the minimum block size. Regardless of the original intent, the > effect is the haves keeping the have nots from getting resources and this > falls squarely on small organizations. My opinion. > > Steven L Ryerse > President > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338 > 770.656.1460 - Cell > 770.399.9099 - Office > 770.392-0076 - Fax > > <image001.jpg>℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc. > Conquering Complex Networks℠ > > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com <mailto:o...@delong.com>] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 9:08 PM > To: Steven Ryerse > Cc: Kevin Kargel; arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > My point is that even before that discussion, there was and always has been > needs testing for IPv6. > > Your claim that what they were advocating for is something new, as if IPv6 > wasn't already subject to needs testing is specious. > > As such, I'm not sure what would cause you to want to scream. > > Owen > > On Dec 15, 2014, at 14:21 , Steven Ryerse <srye...@eclipse-networks.com > <mailto:srye...@eclipse-networks.com>> wrote: > > No, my request for a IPv6 /32 was fulfilled by ARIN. My IPv6 comment below > was concerning discussion of a policy proposal for a past proposal. > > Steven Ryerse > President > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338 > 770.656.1460 - Cell > 770.399.9099- Office > > <image001.jpg>℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc. > Conquering Complex Networks℠ > > From: Owen DeLong [mailto:o...@delong.com <mailto:o...@delong.com>] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 5:14 PM > To: Steven Ryerse > Cc: Kevin Kargel; arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > We have always had and still do have needs testing on all IPv6 allocations > and assignments. > > Do you know anyone who is having trouble getting the IPv6 space that they > need? > > Owen > > On Dec 15, 2014, at 10:49 , Steven Ryerse <srye...@eclipse-networks.com > <mailto:srye...@eclipse-networks.com>> wrote: > > I saw folks in this Community when discussing a policy proposal earlier this > year – advocating for needs testing on all IPv6 allocations. I wanted to > scream when I read it! > > As far as the Internet being different today, ARINs Mission doesn’t go out > the window because of Internet changes. > > Steven Ryerse > President > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338 > 770.656.1460 - Cell > 770.399.9099- Office > > <image001.jpg>℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc. > Conquering Complex Networks℠ > > From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net> > [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net>] On > Behalf Of Kevin Kargel > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 1:12 PM > To: arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > > The internet is a different place now and things change and evolve over time. > If a modern day entrepreneur needed IP space they would have little or no > problem finding all the IPv6 space they need at little or no cost and with > virtually no trouble. > When Jobs and Wozniak were starting up IPV4 was a different animal. > Kevin > > > From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net> > [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net>] On > Behalf Of Steven Ryerse > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 10:16 AM > To: Bill Darte > Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > By that definition, I wonder if Jobs and Wozniak needed IP resources today > for their garage - could they get them? Whether you like what they did or > not they certainly have advanced the Internet. And if John and Sue are > working in their garage today and need a /24 or a /22 from ARIN to further > the Internet, can they get them? With today’s policies – probably not as > they might not have a business plan yet, or signed contract with contractors, > or gotten their funding - or any other measure of need that is currently > indoctrinated in policy. What a shame! > > > Steven Ryerse > President > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338 > www.eclipse-networks.com <http://www.eclipse-networks.com/> > 770.656.1460 - Cell > 770.399.9099- Office > > <image001.jpg>℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc. > Conquering Complex Networks℠ > > From: Bill Darte [mailto:billda...@gmail.com <mailto:billda...@gmail.com>] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 6:10 AM > To: Steven Ryerse > Cc: Jo Rhett; arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > Steven Ryerse said: > In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based > policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of > advancing the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why > is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now > precluded from getting resources? How does that advance the Internet? > > The community through ARIN is ensuring that the distribution of v4 IP > addresses are according to its policies which have been and should continue > to be needs-based..IMO. They are not 'caught up' in the sense that they > cannot proceed...ndeed, they are doing the precise business that policy and > its mission calls for. That some orgs that cannot meet the needs hurdle are > denied...does not mean that others who truly have a need are not serviced. > Those with clear need advance the Internet and do so demonstrably...whereas > those without a demonstrable need MAY advance the Internet as well, but its a > greater risk to the community and one which the community has chosen to forgo. > > Bill Darte > > On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Steven Ryerse <srye...@eclipse-networks.com > <mailto:srye...@eclipse-networks.com>> wrote: > Though it has been a few months since I made those comments, I appreciate > your feedback. Your description of "walk away with someone else’s > belongings" seems to indicate that somehow the use of the Internet and the IP > addresses that make the use of the Internet possible, is owned by ARIN or > this Community or maybe ARIN and this Community. > > I find that line of thinking about as far as one can get from the spirit of > Jon Postel and the way he went about advancing the Internet. When I read the > original Mission Statement for ARIN or even the current one, I don't see that > "needs" are more important than the actual mission of advancement and > allocation. Good stewardship should be practiced but NOT to the detriment of > the mission of advancement and allocation. > > In my opinion this community is so caught up in making sure needs based > policies are followed, that it has lost sight of the real mission of > advancing the Internet. Regardless of your personal definition of need, why > is some org who doesn't have a need (as currently defined by policy) now > precluded from getting resources? How does that advance the Internet? I > never met Jon Postel but from what I've heard about him, I suspect he would > frown on some of the current policies regarding needs. My comments below and > others I have made are intended to try to bring some balance into the > discussion and my hope is that some day in the near future that will happen. > I certainly don't desire there be no rules at all but the very loose rules > followed by Jon Postel worked pretty well advancing the Internet. I think we > could loosen the current policies like has been done in other regions and it > would have a positive outcome. My two cents. > > Steven Ryerse > President > 100 Ashford Center North, Suite 110, Atlanta, GA 30338 > www.eclipse-networks.com <http://www.eclipse-networks.com/> > 770.656.1460 <tel:770.656.1460> - Cell > 770.399.9099 <tel:770.399.9099>- Office > > ℠ Eclipse Networks, Inc. > Conquering Complex Networks℠ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jo Rhett [mailto:jrh...@netconsonance.com > <mailto:jrh...@netconsonance.com>] > Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 12:17 AM > To: Steven Ryerse > Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net <mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] 2014-1 Out of Region Use > > On Oct 27, 2014, at 5:23 PM, Steven Ryerse <srye...@eclipse-networks.com > <mailto:srye...@eclipse-networks.com>> wrote: > > If in the spirit of trying to prevent fraud non-fraudulent requests get > > rejected, then Arin's mission stops being fulfilled. I think it is > > important to make sure the mission is respected first and stopping fraud > > second or third or fifth or whatever. We could stop all fraud by stopping > > all allocations but of course that makes no sense. I would also point out > > that even when fraud happens Arin's Mission is still being fulfilled. > > I completely disagree. There are dozens if not hundreds of people with > non-fraudulent requests who get denied for insufficient justification. That > is ARIN doing their job successfully in my mind. If widespread fraud occurs > and ARIN does not take action, then I feel strongly that ARIN would not be > doing their job. > > > Of course maybe if the needs tests were loosened fraud would be > > significantly reduced as there would be no need to submit fraudulent > > requests. > > Do you mean that if it were permissible to walk away with someone else’s > belongings, then theft would no longer occur? Your statement is true without > making any sense at all. > > > I'm sure an org willing to submit a fraudulent request would tell you that > > they do have a need but they may not happen to meet the current arbitrary > > (and they are arbitrary) policy. > > I disagree completely. ARIN’s role is to satisfy needs-based requests. > Exercising judgement of whether a need is realistic is doing their job. > > The only thing arbitrary here is your desire for there to be no rules at all. > Deeply amusing, but not helpful for realistic policy. > > -- > Jo Rhett > +1 (415) 999-1798 <tel:%2B1%20%28415%29%20999-1798> > Skype: jorhett > Net Consonance : net philanthropy to improve open source and internet > projects. > > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net > <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any > issues. > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net > <mailto:ARIN-PPML@arin.net>). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml> > Please contact i...@arin.net <mailto:i...@arin.net> if you experience any > issues.
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