Anti-flip shouldn't matter the moment there's no free pool left to allocate from.
Unless you have some misguided notion that policy hacks are really going to meaningfully impact the full-fledged transfer-only market for v4 space. There's so many ways to structure transactions that policy attempts will be futile. Matthew Kaufman (Sent from my iPhone) > On May 31, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com> wrote: > > I don’t think anyone has said any such thing, Milton. > > What we have said is that it seems impossible to allow relaxed inter-RIR > transfers within an organization in a way that preserves the anti-flip > provisions the community has deemed necessary without having globally > coordinated policy for the anti-flip provisions. > > Whether you support having such a thing or not, that much seems to be simply > the facts of the situation. > > The policy in China is unrelated except to the extent that it was used as an > example of a reason that relaxed transfer policy is needed. > > Owen > >> On May 31, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <muel...@syr.edu> wrote: >> >> It’s very naïve for people to suggest that national policy in China is going >> to be affected by a global policy of RIRs. >> --MM >> >> From: arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net [mailto:arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net] On >> Behalf Of Rudolph Daniel >> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:49 PM >> To: arin-ppml@arin.net >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 >> >> >>>That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question >> >>>can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those >> >>>that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if >> >>>they desire to do so.<<< >> >> Tend to agree ...It may be better addressed at global policy level if at all. >> RD >> >> On May 30, 2015 12:00 PM, <arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net> wrote: >> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to >> arin-ppml@arin.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> arin-ppml-requ...@arin.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> arin-ppml-ow...@arin.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers >> to Specified Recipients) (Owen DeLong) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 29 May 2015 18:16:34 -0700 >> From: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com> >> To: Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com> >> Cc: "arin-ppml@arin.net" <arin-ppml@arin.net> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2: Modify 8.4 >> (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients) >> Message-ID: <8a9f435e-20bf-4e90-9141-99a7d93fc...@delong.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> If it were enforceable, it would address my concern. >> >> The problem is that we are then looking to have an ARIN contract enjoin an >> action by the organization in another RIR which I am not sure would give us >> any recourse whatsoever were that contract to be violated. >> >> That?s why I didn?t propose language? I don?t think the issue in question >> can be unilaterally addressed, so I think we should accept that and those >> that are interested can begin work on a globally coordinated policy if they >> desire to do so. >> >> We?ve already seen that attempting to unilaterally influence minimum policy >> requirements on other regions is unlikely to work. Witness RIPEs recent >> ?workaround? to ?compatible needs basis?. I am not especially interested in >> expanding this problem space. >> >> Owen >> >> > On May 29, 2015, at 12:06 PM, Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com> wrote: >> > >> > Owen, >> > >> > So does this text cover your proposal then? >> > >> > Draft Policy ARIN-2015-2 >> > Modify 8.4 (Inter-RIR Transfers to Specified Recipients) >> > >> > Date: 26 May 2015 >> > >> > Problem Statement: >> > >> > Organizations that obtain a 24 month supply of IP addresses via the >> > transfer market and then have an unexpected change in business plan >> > are unable to move IP addresses to the proper RIR within the first 12 >> > months of receipt. >> > >> > Policy statement: >> > >> > Replace 8.4, bullet 4, to read: >> > >> > "> Source entities within the ARIN region must not have received a >> > transfer, allocation, or assignment of IPv4 number resources >> > from ARIN for the 12 months prior to the approval of a transfer >> > request. >> > - This restriction does not include M&A transfers. >> > - This restriction does not include a transfer to a wholly owned >> > subsidiary out side of the ARIN service region >> > if the recipient org will be required to not transfer any IP space >> > for the remaining balance of 12 month window." >> > >> > >> > On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 4:06 AM, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com >> > <mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote: >> > >> >> On May 28, 2015, at 6:46 AM, Jason Schiller <jschil...@google.com >> >> <mailto:jschil...@google.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> Owen, >> >> >> >> How does that differ from the policy text I sent? >> >> >> >> Can you send an idea of policy text? >> >> >> >> I thought the text I sent said that an ARIN org can transfer IPs out to >> >> another wholely owned subsidiary in another RIR region if they have been >> >> the recipient of transfer in less that 12 months IF the recipient org >> >> will be required (read by recipient's RIR policy) to hold the transfered >> >> resource for the balance of the 12 months. >> >> >> >> >> > Your proposal allows substitution. >> > >> > ARIN->Other RIR space A >> > Space B Other RIR-> Money/etc. >> > >> > I want to see substitution transfers prohibited. >> > >> > Owen >> > >> >> ___Jason >> >> >> >> On May 28, 2015 8:31 AM, "Owen DeLong" <o...@delong.com >> >> <mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote: >> >> Or simply not permit it under ARIN policy until such exists. >> >> >> >> Owen >> >> >> >> > On May 28, 2015, at 1:49 PM, John Curran <jcur...@arin.net >> >> > <mailto:jcur...@arin.net>> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > On May 27, 2015, at 11:39 PM, Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com >> >> > <mailto:o...@delong.com>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> My suggestion is that I don't mind (virtually) unrestricted moves of >> >> >> addresses to different regions staying with the same organization. >> >> >> However, if we are to allow that, I want us to find a way that you >> >> >> can't merely use that as a way to move addresses out of flip >> >> >> protection to then flip them to another organization via an RIR with a >> >> >> less restrictive transfer policy. >> >> >> >> >> >> So... If you transfer addresses to another region, keeping them in the >> >> >> same organization, no penalty. However, you are not allowed to >> >> >> subsequently transfer them (or other addresses in that region) to an >> >> >> external party for at least 12 months. >> >> > >> >> > That second portion that you seek would affect the ongoing operation of >> >> > another RIR, i.e. it requires them having some explicit policy to that >> >> > effect. >> >> > >> >> > To obtain the result you seek, we either need globally coordinated >> >> > transfer >> >> > policy in this area, or you need to make the inter-RIR transfer policy >> >> > explicit >> >> > in this regard in determination of compatibility. >> >> > >> >> > /John >> >> > >> >> > John Curran >> >> > President and CEO >> >> > ARIN >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________________ >> > Jason Schiller|NetOps|jschil...@google.com >> > <mailto:jschil...@google.com>|571-266-0006 >> > >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150529/10dd910c/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML mailing list >> ARIN-PPML@arin.net >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> >> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 119, Issue 23 >> ****************************************** >> _______________________________________________ >> PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
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