Relating to rights and property of IP numbers. Does the proposed IANA transition change the landscape or has potential to change the current status?
RD On Jun 5, 2015 12:52 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region (William Herrin) 2. Re: ARIN-PPML 2015-2 (Richard J. Letts) 3. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region (Mike Burns) 4. Re: ARIN-PPML 2015-2 (William Herrin) 5. Re: On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region (William Herrin) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:01:09 -0400 From: William Herrin <[email protected]> To: Lu Heng <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected] List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region Message-ID: <CAP-guGU4A_ioQOchu-UYt2+G-vitMawa7T0cp1FgeULDaSZ_=a...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Lu Heng <[email protected]> wrote: > Remove need based potentially unify a global transfer policy since APNIC and > RIPE has already done so. Hi Lu, A globally coordinated policy which also constrained subregistries to facilitate transfers in accordance with the policy might be worthwhile. We'd have to take care not to pretend that ARIN and APNIC work the same way: APNIC cedes much of its registry operation to National Internet Registries, non-operating entities whose role is to be miniature APNICs. ARIN has subregistries in little more than name. ISPs are operating entities which apply the allocated IP addresses to _their_ operations with the full expectation that the customer holds addresses only so long as they purchase the attached network service. Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer policy as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct customer instead. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ [email protected] [email protected] Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 16:22:58 +0000 From: "Richard J. Letts" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 Message-ID: < sn1pr08mb18232722966f578320caf73fc0...@sn1pr08mb1823.namprd08.prod.outlook.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" If that is the case, then ARIN/We should update inter-RIR policies to only allow transfers to registries that have substantially similar transfer policies. This does not require complete blobal co-ordination, but it will establish areas where co-operating RIRs get access to free markets and uncooperative RIRs do not. If target registry does not allow transfers out of their RIR then reject transfer to target registry If target registry allows transfers out of their RIR to any other registry that does not allow transfers out of their RIR then reject transfer to target registry else accept the transfer Otherwise you have the situation where limited addresses cannot be transferred across border, leading to an imperfect market which (long-term) affects the rest of the world?s ability to function using IPv4 (which will be significant for a while yet) In the meantime, making it harder to move recently acquired addresses to a different RIR acts as a brake on the ability to arbitrage or move relatively recently acquired addresses to a registry with restrictive market policies. Richard Letts From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rocky Sent: 4 June 2015 6:24 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 Hi William, Same as the CNNIC, KRNIC, VINNIC, IDNIC and NIXI ( Indian NIR) do not allow to transfer their IPv4 addresses out of their NIRs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20150605/caa2b152/attachment-0001.html > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:39:42 -0400 From: "Mike Burns" <[email protected]> To: "'William Herrin'" <[email protected]>, "'Lu Heng'" <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer policy as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct customer instead. Regards, Bill Herrin Hi Bill, What about when the NIR and RIR allow for outgoing transfers but a specific country makes it illegal for their citizens to do this? Do we hold inter-regional transfer policy hostage to any particular country's law? I will note that although RIPE allows transfers, country-based sanctions prevent those transfers to Iranian organizations. These are untested waters. The relationship between RIRs and NIRs insofar as policy compliance is probably a matter of those RIR's individual policies. Or is the NIR concept elucidated in some global document? Is it good enough that at the APNIC level we have reciprocity? I believe that it is not required for Chinese firms to hold all their addresses within CNNIC, rather some can be held directly in APNIC accounts. So what if a Chinese buyer opened an APNIC account and purchased inter-regionally, then transferred from APNIC to CNNIC under their existing policies? Or just left the accounts registered in APNIC? Regards, Mike ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:41:31 -0400 From: William Herrin <[email protected]> To: "Richard J. Letts" <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML 2015-2 Message-ID: <CAP-guGV6GO0coNEjnogxgx9jZ+Mmyj03=hrdqm46_d476u2...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Richard J. Letts <[email protected]> wrote: > If that is the case, then ARIN/We should update inter-RIR policies to only > allow transfers to registries that have substantially similar transfer > policies. Hi Richard, The plain language of the transfer policies already requires that. It's an enforcement problem: ARIN is permitting transfers anyway. I don't know what we can do about it save wagging fingers at John Curran. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ [email protected] [email protected] Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 12:51:26 -0400 From: William Herrin <[email protected]> To: Mike Burns <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] On IPv4 free pool runout and transfer policy requirements for the ARIN region Message-ID: <cap-gugx9nz_h4bgk6g5jmi2sqp9zc8jjcp2jgxx1xyfeet9...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: >> Put simply: APNIC NIRs would have to comply with any global transfer policy >> as well even as ARIN ISPs are understood to be the direct customer instead. > > What about when the NIR and RIR allow for outgoing transfers but a specific > country makes it illegal for their citizens to do this? Hi Mike, I don't see a useful distinction between the two, save that if the registry serves a wider community than the jurisdiction which prevents transfers, the registry might achieve compliance by preventing transfers into the jurisdiction. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William Herrin ................ [email protected] [email protected] Owner, Dirtside Systems ......... Web: <http://www.dirtside.com/> ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML mailing list [email protected] http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 120, Issue 46 ******************************************
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