Not a new voice, but C for me please. It avoids a bunch of corner cases that A 
introduces, but is far simpler and easier for everyone to understand than B. It 
also is more consistent with the original idea of a /16 limit, which gets us 
the simplification benefit for the vast majority of transfers while avoiding 
some concerns about making really large transfers too easy. We can always 
change /16 to something larger once we have experience with using it. 

Scott

> On Feb 9, 2017, at 9:39 AM, Jason Schiller <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> 
> After reading your mail, I noticed I artificially shortened the text for C.  
> It should have been what you described as your preferred choice.
> 
> Re-asking the question for clarity (and hopes of getting new voices).
> 
> We have a few options on the table and only a few voices in the discussion...
> 
> I'd like to quickly outline the options, and see if we can get more people to 
> weigh in and either note they object to one or more options, are ambivalent 
> to one or more options, or support one or more options (with some preference).
> 
> 
> 1. demonstrate 80% utilization on average for all your IP space
> 2. get pre-authorization for 1 or more transfers up to double your current 
> holdings over then two years
> 2.1. this is limited to a /16
> 
> A. you can use this policy once every 6 months
> 
> B. If you need to use this policy more than once every 6 months you need to 
> also demonstrate growth equaling half what you have transferred since you 
> last used this policy.
> 
> C. You can use this policy to transfer a total of up to a /16 every 6 months
> 
> Where do you stand on A, B or C?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 3:35 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Respectfully I reject your premise on the fairness.
>> 
>> Neither A, nor C prevent large organizations from getting more, they merely 
>> require that they use other less simplified provisions of the existing 
>> policy.
>> 
>> I think what I support is sort of a hybrid between A and C in that I believe 
>> you should be able to use the policy to transfer as often as you want, so 
>> long as your transfers within any 6 month period under this policy don’t 
>> exceed a /16. You’d still be able to transfer a /16 under this policy and 
>> then use other existing policies if you needed more.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2017, at 12:04 , Jason Schiller <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I support B.  
>>> 
>>> It puts added work on those who need more than a /16, or have a growth rate 
>>> more than doubling every half yeah, but does not prevent organizations who 
>>> need IP addresses from getting them.
>>> 
>>> I oppose A and C as they are unfair, 
>>> 
>>> A. 
>>>   - unfairly penalizes large organizations that need more than a /16
>>>   - unfairly penalizes organizations growing faster than double their 
>>> current holding
>>>     (especially new organizations that started with a /24 and have a growth 
>>> rate greater than 512 customer per year)
>>> 
>>> C.
>>>    - unfairly penalizes large organizations that need more than a /16
>>>    - unfairly penalizes organizations growing faster than double their 
>>> current holding
>>>    - unfairly does not penalizes organizations growing faster than double 
>>> their current holding so long as they need less than a /16
>>> 
>>> 
>>> A > B or B > A?
>>> 
>>> I can't decide if A is less unfair because there is no carve out for 
>>> organizations that need less than a /16.  On one hand those needing less 
>>> than a /16 are not treated unfairly as a special class, but as a result the 
>>> number of organizations who need IP addresses that are rate limited is 
>>> greater.
>>> 
>>>  Or if C is less unfair because it is unfair to have a carve out for the 
>>> organization that need less than a /16 for exactly the opposite reasons.
>>> 
>>> __Jason
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Jason Schiller <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> We have a few options on the table and only a few voices in the 
>>>> discussion...
>>>> 
>>>> I'd like to quickly outline the options, and see if we can get more people 
>>>> to weigh in and either note they object to one or more options, are 
>>>> ambivalent to one or more options, or support one or more options (with 
>>>> some preference).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 1. demonstrate 80% utilization on average for all your IP space
>>>> 2. get pre-authorization for 1 or more transfers up to double your current 
>>>> holdings over then two years
>>>> 2.1. this is limited to a /16
>>>> 
>>>> A. you can use this policy once every 6 months
>>>> 
>>>> B. If you need to use this policy more than once every 6 months you need 
>>>> to also demonstrate growth equalling half what you have transferred since 
>>>> you last used this policy.
>>>> 
>>>> C. you can use this policy to transfer a total of up to a /16
>>>> 
>>>> Where do you stand on A, B or C?
>>>> 
>>>> __Jason
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Scott Leibrand <[email protected]> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> That would be a significant improvement on the current ("An organization 
>>>>> may only qualify under 8.5.7 once every 6 months.") text.  I would be 
>>>>> equally fine with this text ("No more than a total of a /16 equivalent 
>>>>> may be transferred under these provisions within any 6 month period." or 
>>>>> similar) or with Jason's ("An organization may only qualify under 8.5.7 
>>>>> once every 6 months, unless they can also demonstrate growth of IPv4 
>>>>> utilization of at least half of the amount of specified transfers since 
>>>>> the previous transfer pre-authorization or approval.")
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Scott
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 2:22 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> Simple to resolve for the 6-month horizon —
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> … Such that no more than a total of a /16 equivalent may be transferred 
>>>>>> under these provisions within any 6 month period. …
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Owen
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> > On Feb 3, 2017, at 07:19 , David R Huberman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I thought of a possible problem with the anti-abuse language -- all 
>>>>>> > versions of it.  Let me talk it out.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > An organization has a /19.
>>>>>> > It has growing products, and wants another /19 for its 1 or 2 year 
>>>>>> > need.
>>>>>> > It wants to avail itself of the new language.
>>>>>> > It is able to buy a /20 from Buyer A, and a /20 from Buyer B.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > It closes the deal with Buyer A first, and transfers at ARIN using the 
>>>>>> > proposed language.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > How does it use any version we've discussed (Jason's various 
>>>>>> > proposals, the current text, etc) to transfer the space it buys from 
>>>>>> > Buyer B?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > (In all discussion, yes, you can always use the other sections of 8.5, 
>>>>>> > but let's stick to the spirit of this policy language, which is meant 
>>>>>> > to help smaller and mid-size networks double their holdings without 
>>>>>> > needs testing.)
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > PPML
>>>>>> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
>>>>>> > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
>>>>>> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>>> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>>> > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> PPML
>>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> PPML
>>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
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>>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>>>> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> _______________________________________________________
>>>> Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]|571-266-0006
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> _______________________________________________________
>>> Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]|571-266-0006
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> _______________________________________________________
> Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]|571-266-0006
> 
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