Jordi, with your permission I would like to try to summarize this situation to what really matters. IMHO.
All players in this community want and defend a free Internet correctly. Wonderful! But they hesitate to assume the responsibilities that this freedom obviously demands. We are all non-imputable no matter the size of the evils caused. Against this background it is necessary to ask: Free internet for who and for what? You will allow politicians regulate your activities pressured by the clamor of society? I would add another question: Why most ISPs teamabuses refuse to prevent reported customers from continuing to commit illicit acts that have been properly documented? Marilson Em qui, 2 de mai de 2019 às 04:56, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via ARIN-PPML < [email protected]> escreveu: > Hi Owen, > > I think that the comparison with a property is not good, so I'm top > posting to make it simple. > > ARIN is providing a registration service for unique and exclusive rights > for resources, following a membership organization model. > > Let's take another similar "association membership model". Please, note > that I'm not a lawyer and my reading from US laws may be different as what > we have in Spain. > > Let's suppose it is a sports club and you can request that at some time in > the week, the tennis court is allocated to member A, at another time to B, > and another time to X. Member X decides to ignore that allocation and uses > the court. Even more, X is doing from time to time the same with the > allocation to member B, and many others. This is clearly against the rules > *and* repeatedly against the rights of other association members. > > The association clearly can tell X, we don't want you to be anymore a > member. You've done this not just by mistake, it was a repetitive action in > violation of our rules and not respecting other members rights. > > You can find other examples, such a shared property. You have a right to > use a property for a week, and if another member is usurping that right for > other members "time", they don't follow the rules. > > One more example, in Spain there have been many cases of pick-pockets that > the public transport authority (and confirmed by courts if they complain), > has denied using the public transport, just because they have been caught > once and again. > > A more extreme example. You can have a property, let's say your home, and > there are some common areas (for example a garden, a small summer swimming > pool, etc.). You are a member of the neigbourhood, that of course has rules > about how the garden and swiming pool can be used. If you act against those > rules, or act against the rights of other neighbours, you can get cancelled > your rights to use those common areas. Even more, in an extreme case, a > judge will even tell you (this is not a theory, there have been many > cases), you can't anymore use your home: find another one, and you can rent > this to someone else, because you demonstrated that you don't know how to > follow the rules. > > In all those cases, the membership organization has the right to state > (according to the bylaws), what are the rules. If the rules are accepted by > the members, they must be followed and respected. > > I think it is obvious that the RIRs provide the unique and exclusive > rights to members. I thinkk it is obvious *even* if we don't have such > explicit rule, that a member can't act against those unique and exclusive > rights granted to other members. > > Our policies are there, some times, to state in an explicit way, what it > may be considered obvious. This is what our policy proposal is tryint to do. > > A resource hijack, is violating other member rights, and is also violating > the rules about how the resources should be *correctly* registered, even if > this hijack is violating the rules only during a few minutes or hours, it > is still violating the rules. > > There is some wording in the RSA that talks about some relevant aspects to > this discussion (coping only some of the text): > 2. CONDITIONS OF SERVICE > (1) The exclusive right to be the registrant of the Included Number > Resources within the ARIN database; > (2) The right to use the Included Number Resources within the ARIN > database; > > However, I'm mising a more clear "unique and exlusive right to use" in 2. > > Also: > (d) Prohibited Conduct By Holder. In using any of the Services, Holder > shall not: (i) disrupt or interfere with the security or use of any of the > Services; (ii) violate any applicable laws, statutes, rules, or > regulations; or (iii) assist any third party in engaging in any activity > prohibited by any Service Terms. > > Policies can increase that wording and make it more obvious and facilitate > both the organization and the members to take actions if those are not > accidental and if they become repetitive. > > I believe bylaws are not clear on this, but it may be because it is > clearly illegal to act against the membership rights of other members, so > you don't need to re-state it in bylaws, but making it clear in policies it > is definitively a good thing. > > Policies are easier to adapt to the community needs, by means of the PDP, > which may change with the time, evolution of protocols, etc. While the > bylaws and RSA aren't so easy to modify, but they clearly state that the > policies are part of the rules to be followed by members. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > > El 2/5/19 8:59, "ARIN-PPML en nombre de Owen DeLong" < > [email protected] en nombre de [email protected]> escribió: > > > > > On May 1, 2019, at 18:08 , Fernando Frediani <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > On 01/05/2019 17:17, Joe Provo wrote: > >> > >> "Distribution function" is indeed merely agreeing that the data > >> recorded in the registry is accurate. There's no dibursement of > >> anything. When we bought our house and land, the registry of > >> deeds was similar only involved in verifying that the transfer > >> from the previous holders to us was a valid contract within the > >> scope of its operations (the state in which we live). When a > >> neighbor was doing a construction project and we had to go block > >> their heavy equipment, the registrar of deeds sure didn't come > >> and settle the dispute. We went down, got the county map and > >> they agreed. if they hadn't, law enforcement and courts would > >> have been the next step. > >> > >> This, like all Internet analogies, is poor; my thrust is that rfg's > >> is worse. To parallel ARIN with a transportation agency's "line > >> drawing" and officials embued with law enforcement is wildly off > >> track. > > That's not that same thing unfortunately. Your house and land belong > to you until you sell it, the resources the RIR assign to people **never** > belong to them, they are not a property. Instead they remain under their > responsibility and they may unassigned if misused or for other reasons. > > The following is strictly my opinion. It may well deviate from the > legal theories under which the RIRs currently operate. > > The county can revoke your deed if you don’t pay your property taxes. > > ARIN can revoke your registration if you don’t pay your ARIN fees. > > The county can revoke your deed if they find that it was recorded > under fraudulent pretense. > > ARIN can revoke your resources if they find your registration was > obtained under fraudulent pretense. > > The only difference is in what is being registered/recorded by the > different registries. The property registry in the various counties > registers property. > > ARIN registers numbers to guarantee uniqueness among cooperating > parties. > > As has been repeatedly stated in this debate, ARIN has no control or > authority over non-cooperating parties that have not signed a contract with > ARIN. > > An entity which has no contract with the RIRs really can use any > integers they want in any way they want to the extent that others are > willing to accept that use. > > If someone wants to claim 10.0.0.0/8 as a public address and route it > on the internet, the RIRs cannot do anything to stop them unless it > violates an RIR contract that said entity is a party to. > > If they can find enough ISPs willing to route that on their behalf, > then de facto, that address range will be theirs and it really doesn’t > matter what the RIRs have to say about it. > > The internet works because the vast majority of networks choose to > cooperate with the RIR system and work within the system to preserve > uniqueness. > > There’s no law that prevents this from becoming balkanized and > disintegrating into competing non-unique uses of address space. I hope that > doesn’t happen and fortunately, there’s enough financial interest in the > process to make sure the majority of ISPs continue to not want it as well. > > Nonetheless, it is important to understand just how fragile this > ecosystem actually is and just how limited the power of the RIRs actually > is. > > Owen > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. 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