Agree with Brian and Owen. Also oppose this policy proposal. Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 16, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Brian Jones <[email protected]> wrote: > > I oppose this policy as written, mainly for the reasons Owen outlines. This > would eliminate the wait list and possibly lock up useful resources now that > may not be as relevant or useful in the future. It does also seem contrary to > ARIN's mission in my view. > > — > Brian Jones, CSP, CSM, CSPO > NIS Virginia Tech > [email protected] > > >> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:10 PM Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: >> Really, it seems to me that this proposal is another attempt at eliminating >> the waiting list for unmet requests. >> >> The first attempt (ARIN auctions the space) met with resistance from ARIN’s >> legal team (for good reason), so now this attempts to sequester the space >> where it will be hard to distribute rather than allowing the waiting list to >> have any potential to compete with the transfer market. >> >> The proposed targets (4.4 and 4.10 pools) are well stocked and unlikely to >> run out in any useful IPv4 lifetime. >> >> As such, restocking them from returned space strikes me as just a way to >> sequester this space where it cannot be used. >> >> IMHO, this is counter to ARIN’s mission and should not be allowed. >> >> I oppose the policy as written and as proposed to be amended. >> >> Owen >> >> >>> On Aug 15, 2019, at 13:55 , WOOD Alison * DAS via ARIN-PPML >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Thank you for the continued input on this draft policy proposal. >>> >>> I will be updating the text of the draft policy to include both 4.4 and >>> 4.10 pools. Point of information, the 4.4 pool currently has approximately >>> 391 /24’s and 4.10 has approximately 15,753 /24’s available and are not >>> estimated to run out in the next five years. >>> >>> Please keep your feedback coming, it is very helpful for the council. >>> >>> -Alison >>> >>> From: ARIN-PPML [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fernando >>> Frediani >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 6:44 AM >>> To: arin-ppml <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to >>> the 4.10 Reserved Pool >>> >>> The point is that you treating IP marketing as something 'natural' or a >>> 'default route' which it is not and can never be. Natural is to receive >>> some addresses from the RIR in first place so they are treated as anyone >>> else was in the past and have a chance to exist in the Internet with same >>> conditions as all others. From that if they need extra space then fine to >>> seek for alternative ways. >>> >>> I don't think a new entrants would automatically qualify for 4.10 in all >>> cases therefore any space left should be targeted also to them as well to >>> IPv6 transition and critical infrastructure. Otherwise the community will >>> be creating an artificial barrier to them in order to favor the IP market >>> while the RIR still has IPv4 space available for them. >>> >>> Fernando >>> >>> On 30/07/2019 10:30, Tom Fantacone wrote: >>> I would think that the majority of new entrants would need at least some >>> allocation to help with IPv6 transition and would qualify for addresses >>> from the 4.10 pool. Depending on what they receive from that pool and >>> when, they may not qualify for additional waiting list addresses and would >>> have to go to the transfer market for additional IPv4 space anyway. Those >>> that don't qualify under 4.10 can still get smaller IPv4 blocks on the >>> transfer market readily, and the cost for blocks in the /24-/22 range is >>> not prohibitive. Certainly an organization seeking a small IPv4 block for >>> multi-homing or other purposes is better off spending a few thousand >>> dollars to purchase a range than waiting a year on the waiting list to put >>> their plans in motion. >>> >>> Note that while RIPE does not have a reserve pool specifically for IPv6 >>> transition, the expectation of their final /8 policy was to allow new >>> entrants access to IPv4 to assist in this transition. In reality, it >>> didn't work out that way and most of the /22 allocations to new LIRs from >>> the final /8 were to existing organizations who spun up new, related >>> entities in order to increase their IPv4 holdings: >>> >>> https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/so-long-last-8-and-thanks-for-all-the-allocations >>> >>> I'm also sympathetic to new entrants, but don't see the current waiting >>> list as a great help to them vs. the 4.10 pool or the transfer market, both >>> of which allow you your allocation in a timely fashion. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Tom Fantacone >>> >>> >>> ---- On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:39:32 -0400 Fernando Frediani >>> <[email protected]> wrote ---- >>> >>> I find it interesting the idea of privileging the pool dedicated to >>> facilitate IPv6 Deployment and I also agree with the comments below in >>> the sense that it's not very beneficial do most ARIN members due to max >>> size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20. >>> >>> However one point I couldn't identify is where the new entrants stand in >>> this new possible scenario ? Will they only be able to apply under the >>> 4.10 reserved pool ? If so for a access/broadband ISPs may be easier to >>> fit, but not necessarily for other scenarios and types of ISPs. >>> Therefore if I didn't miss anything these returned addresses should also >>> be able to go to new entrants, not only to 4.10 reserved pool conditions. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Fernando Frediani >>> >>> On 25/07/2019 17:32, Tom Fantacone wrote: >>> > I found the wording of the Problem Statement on this one a bit >>> > confusing. However, after deciphering the effect of the actual policy >>> > change I support it. >>> > >>> > Essentially, all returned IPv4 space will no longer go to the waiting >>> > list but will supplement the 4.10 reserved pool used to enhance IPv6 >>> > deployment. This essentially kills off the waiting list. >>> > >>> > The recent restrictions placed on the waiting list to reduce fraud >>> > have hobbled it to the point where it's not very beneficial to most >>> > ARIN members. (Max size, /22, cannot be holding more than a /20). >>> > It's essentially only useful to new entrants, but those that go on it >>> > still have to wait many months to receive their small allocation. If >>> > they justify need now, but have to wait that long, how critical is >>> > their need if they're willing to wait that long? Small blocks are not >>> > terribly expensive and can be quickly gotten on the transfer market. >>> > I can understand waiting that long for a large block needed for a >>> > longer term project due to prohibitive cost, but I don't see a great >>> > benefit to the waiting list as it stands. >>> > >>> > Also, if there's any fraud left on the waiting list, this would kill it. >>> > >>> > I would hope, however, that if implemented, those currently on the >>> > waiting list would be grandfathered in. I do think some entities with >>> > legitimate need got burned on the last change made to the waiting list. >>> > >>> > At 04:05 PM 7/23/2019, ARIN wrote: >>> >> On 18 July 2019, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted >>> >> "ARIN-prop-276: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool" as a >>> >> Draft Policy. >>> >> >>> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17 is below and can be found at: >>> >> >>> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2019_17/ >>> >> >>> >> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will >>> >> evaluate the discussion in order to assess the conformance of this >>> >> draft policy with ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource >>> >> policy as stated in the Policy Development Process (PDP). >>> >> Specifically, these principles are: >>> >> >>> >> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration >>> >> * Technically Sound >>> >> * Supported by the Community >>> >> >>> >> The PDP can be found at: >>> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/ >>> >> >>> >> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: >>> >> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/ >>> >> >>> >> Regards, >>> >> >>> >> Sean Hopkins >>> >> Policy Analyst >>> >> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN) >>> >> >>> >> Draft Policy ARIN-2019-17: Returned Addresses to the 4.10 Reserved Pool >>> >> >>> >> Problem Statement: >>> >> >>> >> An inconsistent and unpredictable stream of address space is an >>> >> unsuitable method of populating the waiting list (4.1.8.1) and >>> >> fulfilling subsequent requests. >>> >> >>> >> Policy statement: >>> >> >>> >> Change "4.10. Dedicated IPv4 Block to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment" to >>> >> "4.10 Dedicated IPv4 Pool to Facilitate IPv6 Deployment" >>> >> >>> >> Change" When ARIN receives its last /8 IPv4 allocation from IANA, a >>> >> contiguous /10 IPv4 block will be set aside and dedicated to >>> >> facilitate IPv6 deployment. Allocations and assignments from this >>> >> block " to "In addition to the contiguous /10 IPv4 block set aside >>> >> and dedicated to facilitate IPv6 deployment, all returns and >>> >> revocations of IPv4 blocks will be added to the pool of space >>> >> dedicated to the facilitation of IPv6 deployment. Allocations and >>> >> assignments from this pool " >>> >> >>> >> Change "This block will be subject to a minimum size allocation of >>> >> /28 and a maximum size allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse >>> >> allocation when possible within that /10 block." to "This pool will >>> >> be subject to a minimum size allocation of /28 and a maximum sized >>> >> allocation of /24. ARIN should use sparse allocation when possible >>> >> within the pool." >>> >> >>> >> Comments: >>> >> >>> >> Timetable for implementation: Immediate >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> ARIN-PPML >>> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>> > >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > ARIN-PPML >>> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
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