+1 The little guy frequently gets hosed in resource allocations. . . . .
Steven Ryerse President srye...@eclipse-networks.com | C: 770.656.1460 100 Ashford Center North | Suite 110 | Atlanta, Georgia 30338 -----Original Message----- From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net> On Behalf Of hostmas...@uneedus.com Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2021 6:47 PM To: Mark McDonald <ma...@siteserver.com> Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Open Letter Regarding 650% Rate-Hike for Legacy Users I think he is saying the categories did not change. He never said that everyone pays the same. For as long as I can remember, us little ones pay LOTS more per IP than the big guys. When this is brought up, they always point out those large guys pay a whole lot more than us. What they fail to consider is that they ALSO get a better price per IP. As the example you noted, they are paying 64 times LESS per IP than your /19. I have always considered that unfair. Albert Erdmann Network Administrator Paradise On Line Inc. On Wed, 15 Sep 2021, Mark McDonald wrote: > Hi John, > We must be looking at different fee charts. Can you send me the one > you’re referring to? We hold a /19 and fall under the “Small” service > category, paying roughly $0.12/IP/Year. Right off the bat, we’re in > the same service category as someone holding a /18, so we’re paying twice as > much per IPv4 Resource as them - but wait, it gets much, much better. Those > holding a /8 are paying $0.0038/IP/Year - *64X* less than our company per > IPv4 resource. Someone over there failed math class if the goal was to level > the costs among all users. > > If ARIN’s goal is to get everyone paying the same per/resource, our bill > should go down to $31.13/year so we’re paying the same per resource as those > issued /8’s. > For an organization that’s trying to promote IP conservation, your metrics > show you’re promoting the opposite - the larger the block, the less I pay. > > I broke it all down for you here: > > CIDR Number of IP's Service Category Fee Fee per/IPv4 (Resource) % of > full cost (/24) per/resource > /24 256 3X-Small $250.00 $0.9766 > /23 512 2X-Small $500.00 $0.9766 100.00% > /22 1,024 2X-Small $500.00 $0.4883 50.00% > /21 2,048 X-Small $1,000.00 $0.4883 50.00% > /20 4,096 X-Small $1,000.00 $0.2441 25.00% > /19 8,192 Small $2,000.00 $0.2441 25.00% > /18 16,384 Small $2,000.00 $0.1221 12.50% > /17 32,768 Medium $4,000.00 $0.1221 12.50% > /16 65,536 Medium $4,000.00 $0.0610 6.25% > /15 131,072 Large $8,000.00 $0.0610 6.25% > /14 262,144 Large $8,000.00 $0.0305 3.13% > /13 524,288 X-Large $16,000.00 $0.0305 3.13% > /12 1,048,576 X-Large $16,000.00 $0.0153 1.56% > /11 2,097,152 2X-Large $32,000.00 $0.0153 1.56% > /10 4,194,304 2X-Large $32,000.00 $0.0076 0.78% > /9 8,388,608 3X-Large $64,000.00 $0.0076 0.78% > /8 16,777,216 3X-Large $64,000.00 $0.0038 0.39% > /7 33,554,432 4X-Large $128,000.00 $0.0038 0.39% > /6 67,108,864 4X-Large $128,000.00 $0.0019 0.20% > > I sincerely hope ARIN re-thinks this before implementation. That’s what > would be fair and equitable for all. > > -Mark McDonald > President/CEO > Siteserver, Inc. > > > On Sep 15, 2021, at 1:05 PM, John Curran <jcur...@arin.net> wrote: > > Mark - > > In April of this year, we announced a consultation on the matter of > harmonizing ARIN’s fees and many of the issues you raised were > discussed at that time on the ARIN-consult mailing list - > https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-consult/2021-April/date.html > > As noted in that discussion, 3621 end-user customers will see their > fees decrease as a result of change. 4431 end-users (those with larger IP > address holdings) will see their fees increase. After the fee changes, all > customers will be paying the same fees based on their total IPv4 resources > held. > > Regarding ISP/EU fees distribution, note that ARIN’s expected total > fees paid in 2021 are approximately $21 million – with ISP’s paying the > overwhelming majority of the costs at approximately $17M annually. > > Thanks, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > On 15 Sep 2021, at 3:21 PM, Mark McDonald <ma...@siteserver.com> wrote: > > Mr. Curran, > > It’s unfortunate to learn about ARIN’s proposal to increase our rates > by 650% from one year to the next from your EMail. It would have been nice to > receive this when this measure was being proposed. In looking through > various member forums, it appears we aren’t alone. While I can appreciate > your desire to standardize rates between End Users and ISP’s, it’s > obvious that ARIN provides a different set of services for ISP’s as it does > End > Users. For us, ARIN stores < 50k of data in a database - similar to a > Domain Registration from Network Solutions. They’re somehow able to perform > these services for about $9/year. ARIN has historically charged us > $300/year for this service, and is now raising rates by 650% to $2000.00/year. > And for what? The IPv4 pool is depleted so there is no value in > attempting to obtain additional IPv4 resources, while IPv6 resources are > limitless, and are charged accordingly. > > For End Users, there are no ongoing SWIP assignments or ongoing actions > from ARIN that require ARIN’s resources and for those that there are, ARIN > charges for those services (new assignments, transfers, etc). We > maintain numerous resources with ARIN through a different ISP account for > resources used for ISP services and pay fees (and utilize services) > accordingly. > > When ARIN, or any organizational body, sends out an email stating rates > are raising 650%, it makes me question how an organization that could do > something for a a set fee for so long suddenly can’t and needs to > implement drastic measures to “recoup” these fees. It wreaks of inefficiency > as > ARIN’s number of resources managed is going up, not down and with any > business, the cost to provide services goes down as the number of customers > (resources) goes up. > > I was trying to look through the ARIN organizational documents and > recent Annual Reports to see how ARIN’s income is represented (percentage of > ISP > vs End-User, RSP vs Non-RSP) as your Email lacks this important > information, however I was unable to find this. It would be much appreciated > if you > could provide it. As a user of ARIN’s services, it would be nice to > see exactly how much of a rate increase this is (increasing ARIN revenue) vs > standardizing rates, which would re-rate *everybody* (raising some, > lowering others) so that ARIN’s revenue remained neutral while equally > balancing > costs to provide services. > > In owning and operating businesses in the IT space, I’ve always viewed > ARIN as a fair and equitable organization. Until today. Your email lacked > critical information that would have shown this as a “standardization > of rates” vs a rate hike on what appears to be all legacy customers. Perhaps > the rates ARIN is charging them isn’t too low, but the rates you’re > charging ISP’s is too high, or perhaps somewhere in between. > > From the Emails I’ve already received from other parties this affects, > it appears the courts will ultimately decide what is legitimate and what is > not, however I feel this could have all been avoided with better > communication. > > > Sincerely, > > > > Mark McDonald > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues. > > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside the organization. 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