That's a very good point Shawn. Another point is that with Help Desk 6.0 you
had some SLAs that came with that product, and in Service Desk 7.0, there are
no SLAs, unless you buy the SLM product. There was a thread on this issue some
days ago.
Guillaume
From: Shawn Rosenberry
Sent: Fri 06/15/07 2:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
**
I second Guillaumes' sentiments. Another thought that comes to mind is the 'Change Lite' application that used to be included 'free' with Help Desk. With version 7.x you no longer had the 'Change Lite' and had to purchase the additional package if you wanted to keep using Change. I would think it only normal for a company to look at past instances and extrapolate from that what might happen when considering whether to purchase a product or not.
Shawn
On 6/15/07, Guillaume Rheault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
**
David,
Please consider what happened to the SLA product. This scenario of the increase in support fees happened with SLA 6.0 to SLM 7.0. Customers who don't even need any more functionality found themselves with a steep increase in support because SLM increased by 10k per app plus user licenses that used to be included. So current CMDB customers, according to this hypothetical, should at least consider this possibility. We would like BMC to be very blunt and clear on the future costs of products so there are no surprises a year or a couple of years from now.
Guillaume
From: Easter, David
Sent: Fri 06/15/07 1:53 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
**
The BMC sales rep never mentioned this potential issue.
That's because it is not a potential issue.
Let me be really blunt about this. What I posted was an *EXAMPLE* of how the two licenses *COULD* be used to differentiate CMDB Enterprise Manager from the Atrium CMDB that comes with ITSM applications. AT THIS TIME THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE LICENSES.
Hope this puts an end to the hypothetical questioning on something that doesn't
exist.
Thanks,
-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit
BMC Software, Inc.
The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Guillaume Rheault
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:16 AM
To: mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
**
David,
I am in a similar situation with a company that is considering Change Management 7.0. One of the big pluses was getting the CMDB for free. The BMC sales rep never mentioned this potential issue. Assuming a grand father support clause as stated in your reply, what about the cost of ongoing support? Would the cost of support be increased because of the value of the CMDB would be higher? It seems another grandfather clause should be retained for support fees too, and that grandfather clause should not expire...
Guillaume
From: Easter, David
Sent: Fri 06/15/07 12:51 PM
To: mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
**
now owe BMC a million plus dollars or we are going to limit the application you are currently using.
Kind of sounds a bit like bait and switch to me.
*sigh* While I cannot speak to the future, I would expect that such a change - were it to happen (and I have never said it will happen or that it is being planned) - would include a "grandfather" clause that retains the licensing that was agreed upon at the time of purchase.
One of the benefits they saw was the included CMDB, however, if that could change in the future then perhaps it isn't so attractive after all.
Nothing stated here is an indication that it will happen or that there are any
plans to do so. I apologize for causing you concern you in this matter.
-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit
BMC Software, Inc.
The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Rosenberry
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 9:33 AM
To: mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
**
OK, let me clarify that statement. You could purchase Service Desk which includes the CMDB, install both to a fully functional state. If need be you could minimally use the Service Desk application, have your CMDB at a fraction of the cost and still use it as you wish. I haven't read the full agreement but unless their is really strict legal statements regarding the amount of Service Desk use, the number of tickets generated etc. I don't see how you could prevent someone from doing this. I'm wouldn't recommend it for a number of reasons, I'm just saying it could be done. If I'm wrong in my logic please feel free to clarify. I love learning new things. :-)
Now the second statement about possibly having restrictions in the future makes perfect sense from a BMC perspective and I can say I could see them doing this. However, if they did, I'm sure they would have some extremely angry customers if those customers implemented a complete ITSM suite including CMDB and were suddenly told that they now owe BMC a million plus dollars or we are going to limit the application you are currently using. Kind of sounds a bit like bait and switch to me. Get them hooked on the "free" application then change it so they have to pay millions to keep using it.
Now after all of this let me say I appreciate your clearing this up for me. This is something my current organization will need to consider as they were looking at possibly purchasing the entire ITSM suite. One of the benefits they saw was the included CMDB, however, if that could change in the future then perhaps it isn't so attractive after all. I will definately be discussing this with Jo Anne Dubose and Joe Gaitley.
Regards,
Shawn Rosenberry
RSP and former RAC
On 6/15/07, Easter, David <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
**
You wouldn't even have to use Service Desk if you didn't want to, have your CMDB and save a ton of cash.
Actually, you couldn't. As stated, CMDB is provided at no additional cost only when used in conjunction with another BMC product. Use of CMDB standalone when provided as part of, say, Service Desk is prohibited. The restriction is a business licensing restriction (sometimes called a "paper license") and not a technical one. ( i.e. you can technically do it - but if you're audited by BMC, you'll need to show usage of Service Desk with CMDB or you'll be charged for CMDB.) CMDB Enterprise Manager, obviously, does not have this restriction. If you choose to purchase CMDB Enterprise Manager, you would be completely licensed to use it standalone and CMDB Enterprise Manager includes the utilities/products necessary to manage and integrate with the CMDB in a standalone environment.
Another subtle difference is that the CMDB that comes with purchase of another BMC product (e.g.
Service Desk) is considered to use a "Foundation" license. While currently this license
option does not limit functions within the CMDB itself, BMC could choose to do so in the future (
e.g. limit the # of nodes within the CMDB if only a foundational license is present). The CMDB
Enterprise Manager would not have such restrictions as it would have an "Enterprise"
license.
Recognizing that BMC has the #1 rank in market share for a CMDB and BMC had a great fiscal year, it may not be such strange business logic. ;-) However it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on current or future BMC business strategy in a public forum.
Thanks,
-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit
BMC Software, Inc.
The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shawn Rosenberry
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 6:24 AM
To: mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
** That still doesn't make business sense to me. Why would you ever purchase the BMC Atrium standalone at that price when you could purchase Service Desk at a fraction of the cost and have the BMC Atrium included. You wouldn't even have to use Service Desk if you didn't want to, have your CMDB and save a ton of cash. Just another example of BMCs strange business logic or is there more to it than that?
On 6/15/07, P Romain ARSlist <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I guess the issue BMC are facing is that Atrium has no user licences so the
only 'standard' source of revenue is the application license itself.
-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sanders
Sent: 15 June 2007 13:25
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
Oops - my bad.
$100k is per instance, and $1.2M is per site licensing.
David Sanders
Remedy Solution Architect
Enterprise Service Suite @ Work
==========================
ARS List Award Winner 2005
Best 3rd party Remedy Application
See the ESS Concepts Guide
tel +44 1494 468980
mobile +44 7710 377761
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk/
-----Original Message-----
From: David Sanders [mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 1:21 PM
To: 'mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG'
Subject: RE: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
Hi Carey
I can't answer your question about the difference in name, but the cost of
"BMC Atrium CMDB Enterprise Manager" is I think $100k per site, or $1.2M for
an enterprise license. Plus costs per endpoint, like $150 per server
managed, $10 per desktop, etc.
Regards
David Sanders
Remedy Solution Architect
Enterprise Service Suite @ Work
==========================
ARS List Award Winner 2005
Best 3rd party Remedy Application
See the ESS Concepts Guide
tel +44 1494 468980
mobile +44 7710 377761
email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
web http://www.westoverconsulting.co.uk/
-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 12:41 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: BMC Atrium CMDB Costs?
David,
And not to split hairs... but.... Is there any difference between:
"BMC Atrium CMDB Enterprise Manager"
and
"Atrium CMDB" (that comes with any portion of ITSM) ?
This question was discussed at last years RUG and no real answer was
supplied. (Or I at least did not get the answer.)
I mean if the cost of the "Enterprise Manger" is 1.2M and the cost of
Service Desk is more like.... 120K (Which should be a reasonable set a
user license for the SD application too.) then why would anyone buy
"Enterprise Manger"? Why not just buy Service Desk and not use the
Service Desk application?
--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
Love, then teach
Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
On 6/14/07, Easter, David <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
**
> So the ITSM suite is not inclusive, with just this package?
BMC Atrium CMDB Enterprise Manager does not include ITSM.
However, if you buy an ITSM application like Asset Management it will
include the Atrium CMDB.
-David J. Easter
Sr. Product Manager, Service Management Business Unit
BMC Software, Inc.
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