Hi Mayur:
At 2:52 AM -0800 11/9/05, mayur bora wrote:
Dear Mahanta da
Here is my response to the points you raised.
1) The total absence of a feeling of bonhomie and
camaraderie among different people will completely
vitiate the atmosphere and mutual distrust and
acrimony will reach its zenith in sovereign Assam. You
can't put the blame solely on GoI for that.
*** But what about your original contention that it IS, now that
is, is Assam's biggest 'weakness'? How has it gotten to where it
is now, as you see it? Under whose control and under the nurturing
policies crafted by whom?
I was hoping to give you some help by asking you the question on
the concept of 'meles' ( mlecch) , but you did avoid it like the
plague, didn't you ? I understand however why you would not touch
it.
GoI, incidentally, has EXPLOITED the growing rifts, that
developed only after the colonial powers, first the British, and the
subsequent, far more corrosive Indian practices took over.
*** I will like to ask you, how, as an intelligent and informed
observer, you see the GoI policies helping the cause of preserving the
ethnic identities of these indigenous people of the region? The Indian
govt. created the many states, actually 'dependencies', of the
NE, by simple majority votes of a Lok Sabha of 500 where the NE's
representation is what, less than 20 , instead of promoting the
co-operative, interdependent ethos that sustained them in the
centuries past. These states, with no means to sustain
themselves, are now abject dependencies of a Center, showering them
with its largesse, creating an illusion they are doing well, but
really killing their culture with a Hindi/Hindu one, political
invasion, perpetuated with military might.
Is that not the bitter truth Mayur? And you accept if not sing
praises of such policies, playing defenders of your indigenous
brethrens' culture?
The only reason I would not call your intent to question here, is
because you are,I am sure, just like so many of your peers, ignorant
of the realities. I too was so, until recently. Fortunately I read
Prof. Sanjib Baruah's book -- Durable Disorder, in which he makes some
of these issues very clear. If you are really interested in
understanding what has been going on, you cannot not read the
book.
2) Let me accept for arguments sake that I am being
obsequious to some system or culture.
*** I don't understand what you are trying to say. Perhaps a
simpler way of expressing yourself would be more helpful for those of
us to whom English is only a second language :-). But if you are
suggesting that a Hindu culture was indeed instrumental, thru the
concept of 'meles', in causing the cultural alienation of the
indigenous people of the NE, why can't you admit it?
Why do you qualify it as merely agreeing for argument's
sake?
Are you trying to have it both ways?
But you have
already surrendered yourself to a pernicious belief
whose impact will be disastrous for the people for
whom you are acting as spokesman.
*** I am a spokesperson ONLY of myself. I am not a designated
representative or spokesperson of anybody. But that is not to suggest
others don't agree with me. Because if it were so, those of you who
disagree, would not be so wrapped up with denouncing my arguments with
fancy words, but without ever being able to explain why or how. It is
because you see my arguments making sense and damaging to your
cause.
Now what exactly do you see as MY pernicious beliefs that will
be destructive
for those whose views I might be reflecting? And HOW will they be
destructive?
I hope you can delineate those, so we can examine the substance
of your opinions.
Worse, you have also
surrendered yourself to sophistry and casuistry in
order to defend your specious arguments.
*** Huh? Are you dropping philosophy on me again here Mayur? I
told you I am philosophically challenged. Your effort is akin to"
gorur aagot twakar bai-xing jwkari ghanh khai". It means nothing
to me, and I doubt to anybody else.
But it will be a different issue with my 'specious' arguments.
What are the arguments that I have been making that are specious (
appear sound but are fallacious--for those who are not sure what the
word means)? My observations of a decade of Assam Net debates has been
that no one gives me an inch, if they can find something incorrect,
fallacious, or otherwise untenable. My esteemed opponents here descend
on me like a crow over a June bug--as they would say here in the
American heartland. The only reason they don't give examples or
explain is because they can't.
You got your challenge for the day Mayur. Prove it. Explain it.
And when you do, I will be the first to take it back, eat crow. But
fancy words will not take your arguments anywhere.
My servitude
is not harmful for others, but yours can spell havoc
in peoples' lives. Of course you will not be affected.
You will probably be busy dishing out justification
from your armchair for any mishap which is bound to
happen.
*** On the contrary servitude of people like yourself, who less
fortunate people look up to, is eminently harmful to their long term
well-being. It prevents them from examining what ails their collective
lot, keeps them from seeking better ways, seeking the reforms to
their governance they so sorely need.
The fact that I am furnishing explanations, clarifying issues
from afar, sitting in my comfortable office in a safe
environment, does not, in way, shape or form, devalue or diminish the
merits of the arguments. I am only pointing them out to the
interested.
But those of you who disagree, are free to do the same. It is a
competition of ideas. But you cannot just deliver verdicts and hope
for them to stick, if you cannot furnish ordinary but credible
explanations and justifications.
3) I never ruled out exception while listing out
strengths and weaknesses of Assamese . Those things
pertain to majority of the people I am sure you are
intelligent enough to understand that. You are raising
the issue to just for the heck of it or may be to
make it look like an elaborate refutation. But looks
can be deceptive at times.
**** I have no idea what you speak of. Help!
4) Why you two brothers? Because you two are most
visible and vociferous supporters of sovereign Assam
on assamnet.
**** No argument with that. But what does that have to do with
Assam's sovereignty aspirations? How do you see the rifts among
the indigenous people of Assam being an ARGUMENT AGAINST sovereignty?
You will need to explain that.
Just the verdict is not enough.
5) Cultural mistrust is one of the many important
reasons why Assam should not think of becoming a
sovereign country. I think I have explained the
reasons several times before.
**** Obviously I missed it. Can you refer me back to it? And if
your argument has any validity, is that not an argument AGAINST Indian
independence as well? And thus it would be an argument FOR reverting
back to a historically independent Assam , wouldn't it?
Furthermore you cannot credibly dismiss Assam's sovereignty
aspirations on this ground if you did not examine whether Indian
policies have helped or hindered in reducing these rifts.
Point here is that your argument is entirely baseless. No doubt
it presents challenges. But an independent, reformed Assam government
holds a far greater possibility of narrowing these rifts and healing
them, because:
attitude, because it
will no longer be able to take Assam's
when it is local. An
independent Assam holds the potential for
of reforms, as it
stands, and as has amply demonstrated over the
Let me stick my neck out and place it on record again.
I am the last person to accept that whatever is being
done towards Assam by GoI as fair.
**** That means nothing Mayur. The problem is with the mechanisms
thru
which India continues to exercise such 'unfair' treatment.
It is the powers that the Center has steadily USURPED, giving it an
aura of 'legality' of 'legitimacy' of its authority to dispense such
'unfairness'. It is further
aggravated by the fact that the contingent of the NE at the
lawmaking central body is minuscule, and even that is a highly
ineffective one due to the defective Indian electoral mechanisms. In a
forum where numbers make the difference, and where the checks and
balances of a truly democratic state do not exist, might is right is
the ruling ethos.
Unless this could be changed around, there will be no change to
Assam's lot.
Unfortunately, it is quite clear to those who are willing to look
into it
carefully, that the fractured and mutually distrustful Indian
polity, hog-tied and disabled by its own myriad of rules and
regulations and dysfunctional instruments of state, are incapable of
reforms, of change.
Thus, no amount of registering feeble dissatisfaction with the
centralized and remote controllers of Assam's fate will change
anything.
But I also strongly
feel that sovereign Assam will further aggravate the
problems and situation will be messier and stickier
with our peoples' blood. I don't want the
corroboration of that dangerous dream of sovereign
Assam at the cost of terrible bloodshed. Hence my
choice is a conscious one and you may call it as a
selection of the lesser evil out of the two options
available.
*** While I understand your concerns, I don't share them. That is
because
I see sovereignty not merely as an end unto itself, not as
an icon to hold on a pedestal, not a flag to wave, but as an as
a tool, as an instrument for effecting positive change to Assam's
lot.
Take care.
cm
Mayur
--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 9:17 AM -0800 11/7/05, mayur bora wrote:
> >I can't agree more with Rajen da's comment on the
> >attitude of caste Hindu Assamese people towards the
> >tribes of Assam.
>
> *** I join you there Mayur. But what does that
> have to do with Assam's sovereignty aspirations?
>
> BTW, caste Hindus' mistreatment of their fellow
> men was not limited to the indigenous people of
> Assam alone, but fell on their own brethren who
> did not quite cut it as their equals.
>
> Now take a wild guess on where these ideas came
> from, where they are still nurtured and is a
> major force in politics and governance? Did you
> hear about the Muslim village pillaged and
> several Muslims incinerated by mobs in UP, on the
> RUMOR that they slaughtered cows for celebrating
> ID, and turns out there was no truth to the
> rumors?
>
> And if I am not mistaken, you submit yourself to
> that very culture in an abject display of
> servitude, don't you?
>
>
>
> >When I listed out the weaknesses of
> >Assamese people sometime back on assamnet, this was
> >the first weakness cited by me.
>
> *** This is not a 'weakness' of ALL the people of
> Assam. It is of only a certain segment. Also,
> such ill-treatment and discrimination is possible
> only by those who wield POWER, be it political,be
> it economic, be it religious.
>
>
> > I would be very happy
> >if Mahanta da-s (both CM and MM)can a provide any
> >realistic and workable solution to dispel the
> >legitimate feeling of mistrust among many of the
> >tribal people towards caste Hindu Assamese.
>
>
> *** Why me or my brother? Why not YOU? Why not
> Rajen? But I have explained. If you don't agree,
> tell us why. If you could not understand, ask. I
> will be pleased to try and explain again. But to
> go about repeating your Mantra, without any
> explanation could paint an unflattering picture
> of your deliberative skills.
>
> *** Are you attempting to suggest here that
> because of this CULTURAL mistrust between the
> indigenous people and the caste Hindus, Assam
> has forfeited its sovereignty aspirations? Is
> that your best argument
> a trump card on your stand against Assam's
> sovereignty?
>
>
> If it is, you need to work on it much harder
> Mayur :-). Because the political fracture is not
> caused by cultural chauvinism of the Assamese,
> but purely because of (not) sharing of the
> spoils, even though the seeds of mistrust might
> have been planted in the past. In that it is the
> REIGNING political culture that is the real
> culprit, and it transcends
> caste/subcaste/religious boundaries with all
> having their fingers in the pot.
>
> Furthermore, this culturally based Assamese
> chauvinism is on its way out anyway from what I
> hear. Is it not true? But under the operative
> system there isn't a snowball's chance in hell
> that it will be eradicated or even ameliorated.
>
>
> >
> >When
> >people don't have any specific solution at sight,
> they
> >try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard
> to
> >sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of
> >words or by promising some kind of panacea which is
> >unrealistic and basically flawed.
>
> *** That surely is the judgement of a superior
> intellect, rendering his verdict.
> But can you explain:
>
>*** Why sovereignty aspirations are flawed?
>
>*** What are unattainable dreams, and should
> attainability be the
>first consideration or the only consideration of a
> dream?
>
>*** Who is attempting to peddle 'words' here,
> without any substance
>behind it? You or me? Not that I like to rub it
> in, but could you
> answer the questions I raised about YOUR
> words in my last post? By
>avoiding a response did you or did you not prove
> that your words were
>the 'fwpwla', hollow ones, not mine :-)?
>
>
> >Sovereighnty is not the panacea as they try hard
> >to make us believe. Sooner we >understand this
> >is better.
>
>
> *** First of all, no one is seeking a panacea,
> except perhaps those who believe that their
> servitude is the panacea that will deliver them
> into a bright new world with handouts from their
> Mai-Baap at Hastinapur :-). But be that as it
> may, why don't YOU tell us WHY and WHAT
> sovereignty will NOT deliver for Assam?
>
> When you do, you could claim a right to your
> conclusions and your august verdicts. Failing
> which it would be another round of 'potaan dhan',
> that might fool or delight those blind ducks, but
> few others.
>
>
>
> cm :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> >When
> >people don't have any specific solution at sight,
> they
> >try to conjure up unattainable dreams and try hard
> to
> >sell them on the ephemeral strength of jugglery of
> >words or by promising some kind of panacea which is
> >unrealistic and basically flawed. Sovereighnty is
> not
> >the panacea as they try hard to make us believe.
> >Sooner we understand this is better.
> >
> >Mayur
> >
> >--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> ><<<<I would say these reflect the same caste Hindu
> >Assamese insensitive attitude towards the other sub
> >ethnic groups in Assam: "we know better what they
> >want." Exactly it is for this Assamese attitude
> for
> >which Assamese lost not only the Nagas, Khasis and
> >Khamtis but also are loosing the Bodos, Mishings,
> >Karbis, Tiwangs, Ravas and all. I can cite many
> >examples of such insensitive remarks from caste
> Hindu
> >Assamese leaders from last 100 years Assam
> political
> >history.>>>>
> >
> >Wrong at every thought.
> >
> >We will create Family Republics but they will have
> to
> >print their own currency.
> >
> >mm
> >
> >mm
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >From: "Barua25" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "mc mahant"
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<r[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >CC: <assam@assamnet.org>
> >Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's Ancient Links with
> >Mainland India
> >Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2005 10:16:16 -0600
> >
> >
> >>Patently erroneeous assumptionS.
> >
> >>Even Delhi stopped this scary lines .
> >
> >>100% will agree to Sovereignty.
> >*** Here are too many assumptions for the question
>
=== message truncated ===
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