Assam and India are not synonymous. One should be able to talk about
Assam by looking at pros and cons of its complete and currently
subservient political association with India.
Jugal
-----Original Message-----
From: Himendra Thakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 06:52:38 -0500
Subject: [Assam] Give-up Anti-India Approach
Dear Mukul,
You are right. I am really pausing to think why nobody is answering.
But, what I wrote were not fantasies. Many years ago, I saw someone
using the term "Civilian Invasion by Bangladesh" and got scared.
Even when I posted "there is NO GOD in Rik Veda" there had been no
response ! No curiosity !!
I always write without personal attack, and without throwing
"adjectives" on correspondents.
I still appeal to you, as an old friend, to give up your anti-India
approach. Who is this Baba Ramdeo, anyway ???
With the best,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: mc mahant
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 5:38 AM
Subject: RE: [Assam] Civilian Invasion by Bangladesh
Himen,
Have you paused to think why nobody is replying to your fantasies?
Could it be that they all think you offer nothing but garbage?
Cool off!
Maybe join Baba Ramdeo's Ashram at somewhere.
Really!
mm
--------
From: "Himendra Thakur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: "Dr. Khanindra Pathak"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,assam@assamnet.org, MANOJ KUMAR DAS
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Assam] Civilian Invasion by Bangladesh
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:13:28 -0500
Dear Chandan,
Since you have made comments about me that "*** Actually you are
something else!" I have now my rights to ask you what you are. Please
answer the following two questions:
1. Are you claiming Independence of Assam from India by living in the
USA under the protection of your US Citizenship?
2. By living in the USA under the protection of your US Citizenship,
are you helping Bangladesh in their Civilian Invasion of India where
the immediate victim is Assam?
Please reply to these questions "with the courage of" your
"convictions."
I'll deal with your other points such "'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate)
attitude towards the USA," etc., after I hear your straight answer to
the above two questions.
Best,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan Mahanta
To: Himendra Thakur ; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: J Kalita ; MANOJ KUMAR DAS
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Hindus and Muslims are brothers
Dear Himen-da,
At 10:12 PM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
Dear Chandan, I am NOT a Muslim baiter --- I am opposed to
INVADERS.
*** Actually you are something else!
It is unreal that you should go on with these patently absurd
arguments and explanations.
Tell you what Himen-da, if I were in your shoes, I would defend my
bigoted views with the courage of my convictions instead of
manufacturing such laughable excuses.
>By making an announcement that there is not a single Bangladeshi
infiltrator in Assam,---"
*** Not Saurav, not I nor anyone else in this forum have made such an
assertion. Now you are resorting flagrant fabrications too.
Besides it is a different issue that has NOTHING to do with your
introductory assertions attempting to deny the citizenship of Muslims
of India by branding them invaders six hundred plus years after the
fact. That was where your bigotry and fascist attitudes showed in
living colors.
>Saurav is justifying the infiltration of Bangladeshis on economics.
*** That is another sleazy assertion. Saurav NEVER JUSTIFIED such a
thing. He was merely attempting to explain the phenomenon to rebut your
convoluted assertion that it is a grand Islamic conspiracy to breed the
hordes of B'deshis so they can take over Assam.
>Every invasion has an economic aspect. Attack by Sultan Mamud prior
to 1193 were all economic ... he wanted gold >rom the Jain, Hindu and
Buddhist temples in India. When the British came, they came for
economic reason ... they even >called it a profit-making East India
Company.
*** And what does that have to do with today's Muslims of India? O,
by extension and implication, Assam's Muslim population? B'deshis have
been sneaking into Assam for ECONOMIC survival, because there is land
to be found. And what has your GoI, with its resources and
constitutional duty of border protection done all these thirty years
about it since the problem exacerbated? And when I asked you that
question why could you NOT explain it?
Oh I know you would blame it on the Nehru Dynasty as if it had
nothing to do with being the Government of India. But that is the
Hinduttwa folks' hang-up, alibi and that does not help Assam, does it?
Anyway what did the NDA do anything other than fan the flames of
sectarian conflict with their fascist ideology spreading the poison of
communalism of historical Hindu Muslim amity in Assam?
>Assam-net is getting ruined by your inuendos, suspicion,
implication, blame, accusation, insinuation ... and >everybody seems to
be in the defensive.
*** I find that very amusing Himen-da.
Those who find themselves on the DEFENSIVE -- I know a few do -- do
so only because they get exposed in their attempts to peddle something
in the guise of something else. My pointing that out causes them
discomfiture and embarrassment. Now if they believe their intent is
honorable, they need not be on the defensive do they? They could DEFEND
their integrity by explaining in simple English, couldn't they?
But once again, here is a little suggestion for those who are
intimidated: Perhaps they would canvass for a DEMOCRATIC referendum to
expel the intimidator. Being the devotees of democracy , they ought not
to be afraid to take it up. And if they are in the majority they could
then demand of the Webmaster/s to either expel or muzzle yours truly by
some other means, to preserve the equanimity of Assam Net.
How is that?
I give you 'bhukto-bhwgis' (victims) ALL the weapons you need for
de-fanging me, even show you my vulnerable underbelly -- but you never
use them. Why Himen-da? Why do you guys instead WHINE and MOAN like
spoilt, mama's-boy brats :-)?
>You accused me of being a US-Citizen-----.
*** No I don't ACCUSE you of being an US citizen. That is NOT a crime
in my book. And from what you charge me with, one can easily infer that
you do. And since you do imply it to be a crime for those of us who
have taken up U S citizenship after coming here, not shackled and
chained, in slave ships, but with free-will,with sound mind and in
sound health, how do you justify your own 'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate)
attitude towards the USA,
Himen-da?
>... and even after being caught red-handed ..
*** I don't know whether to laugh or cry! Sheesh! I thought of you as
a whole lot sharper than you portray yourself to be in these posts
Himen-da.
But again, I will give you a benefit of the doubt that you have
'khai-paat-folaa' ( ingrate) going berserk at being confronted with
your own not-so-honorable outlooks and political pre-dilections.
And just so you know, I don't take ANY of it personally. Trust me on
that :-).
Best,
Chandan
The invading army that attacked Assam in Saraighat included a large
percentage of Hindus. They came from Indo-gangetic plains which was an
occupied territory at that time. Assam was the only India left outside
the occupation by Invaders. Assam fought back, the Battle of Saraighat
was NOT AGAINST INDIA, it was against the Invaders. By identifying
the Invaders as Muslims, you and Saurav have done a great injustice to
Indian Muslims. To protect a family during the early period of invasion
of Indo-Gangetic plains, if a family of had five brothers, two would
take conversion to Islam to protect the remaining three. Without the
protection of Indian Muslims, India would have become completely
Islamized like Persia. I have recorded this many times that, in India,
Hindus and Muslims are brothers lost in the hurricane of History. Once
that hurricane is over, the two brotrhers will shake off their
differences and unite. By making an announcement that there is not
a single Bangladeshi infiltrator in Assam, Bangladesh Government has
actually instituted a CIVILIAN INVASIION of India where Assam the major
victim. I wrote against it, and you are turning it into Muslim baiting.
Apparently you are a supporter of the Banglasehi Civilian Invasion.
Saurav is justifying the infiltration of Bangladeshis on economics.
Every invasion has an economic aspect. Attack by Sultan Mamud prior to
1193 were all economic ... he wanted gold from the Jain, Hindu and
Buddhist temples in India. When the British came, they came for
economic reason ... they even called it a profit-making East India
Company. Just because they had an economic reason, we do not have
to give up our land. Assam-net is getting ruined by your inuendos,
suspicion, implication, blame, accusation, insinuation ... and
everybody seems to be in the defensive. You accused me of being a
US-Citizen ... and even after being caught red-handed ... you continue
the attack that I am camouflaging some Hindutwa [I am once again in the
defensive to tell you that many years ago I gave up my caste and my
religion. I still respect Rik Veda (some people use a foreign word
"Hindu" to mean vedic wisdom) because there is NO GOD in Rik Veda.]
I leave it to the assam-net readers to judge your inuendos, suspicion,
implication, blame, accusation, insinuation. With the best wishes,
Himendra
----- Original Message ----- From: Chan Mahanta To: Himendra Thakur
; assam@assamnet.org Cc: MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; J Kalita Sent: Sunday,
January 29, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Chandan's citizenship
Dear Himen da:
>IF you based most of your
anger/outburst/antagonism/suspicion/insinuations/accusations etc.
against me on the >ground that :
*** Well, actually NONE of it was based on YOUR citizenship. Because
it was not about you. But I did assume, erroneously, that you are the
beneficiary of American citizenship, to drive home the point of the
hypocrisy of your stance on the Muslims of India.
But none of my criticism of YOUR VIEWS ( not your persona) change in
any way, shape or form, from your revelation of your citizenship
status. The only part that does not apply is the hypocrisy as relates
to your OWN citizenship. But it could in other ways, if you know what I
mean?
> I did not (repeat DID NOT) take US Citizenship ... because I still
love Asomi >Ai and Mother India ...
*** But how does that justify your Muslim baiting and your not too
well camouflaged Hinduttwa agenda for Assam?
>I hope this will remove your suspicion that I am doing all these
from >the "benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of
law" and >everything I am doing is "unbecoming, hypocritical"
*** My assessment is NOT a mere suspicion Himen-da. You have
demonstrated very clearly what your agenda is. And unless you can give
us a whole different explanation, credibly, the impression stays. But I
will give you the benefit of a doubt, and will look forward to your
explanations on how you are not indulging in Muslim baiting, not
attempting to deny them their right to citizenship, and not attempting
to peddle Hinduttwa as a tool for preserving Assam as an Indian colony
:-).
>PLEASE tell the readers what is your own citizenship today.
*** Your got me finally, didn't you?
But NOT SO FAST , Himen-da. Most everyone in this forum knows of my
citizenship, which has been American for nearly 25 years now.
Question is,now what? Would my sins absolve you of yours :-)?
Best,
chandan
At 4:03 PM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
Dear Chandan,
IF you based most of your
anger/outburst/antagonism/suspicion/insinuations/accusations etc.
against me on the ground that :
"And coming from someone like yourself, who probably claimed US
citizenship with a mere five or so years in the country, enjoying the
benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law,it is
that much more unbecoming, hypocritical"
I must inform you that, although I am in the USA for the last 33
years, I did not (repeat DID NOT) take US Citizenship ... because I
still love Asomi Ai and Mother India ...
I hope this will remove your suspicion that I am doing all these
from the "benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of
law" and everything I am doing is "unbecoming, hypocritical"
PLEASE tell the readers what is your own citizenship today.
With the best wishes,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan Mahanta
To: Himendra Thakur ; mc mahant
Cc: J Kalita ; MANOJ KUMAR DAS ; assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO
Hello Himen-da:
I know it was not meant for me, even though I do feature in it and I
don't mean to speak for my brother either. But I thought a response is
called for.
>I have come to know that people of Nagaon has recently named a
bridge over the Kolong River after their beloved >poet and named it
"RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO
*** No harm done. Names are not as problematic as building a
pedestrian bridge to Umananda, but for what?
Did Santiago Caltrava's bridge over the Sacramento river at Redding,
California
(http://www.viamagazine.com/top_stories/articles/Redding04.asp )
inspire you to propose the Atan B Xako ( ABX). If it did, you can 'fess
up to it. It would demonstrate good taste.
But it would be a bad case of 'me-too-ism'.
I gave you my reasons. If they seemed without substance, you would
have surely responded. And if not you, at least all my other
net-opponent friends would have gotten on my case as could be seen
daily. You had no care about costs/ benefits ( unexpected, considering
your decades of engineering at Boston), appropriateness of building a
monument where scores of homeless families don't have the dignity of
living like humans. You are unaware of the geography, the lay of the
river and what impact it may have on navigation,or at its foot for
access ramps etc. But you can educate yourself if you download the
Google Earth free-software and go look up Guwahati from the air, quite
easily.
But all that on the practicality point, provided a conceptual
justification could be made. That is where the abject failure of the
idea lies.
Your idea is rooted in the same kind of silly notion like the
monument of Lasit at the military academy in Chennai, as if Assam's
discontent is rooted on its not being noticed by India.
Suspicion? Heck no Himen-da. It is a well-known fact that the efforts
at Hinduization of Assam as a means for perpetuating Indian occupation
is what that other light( weight) general and the current one at the
guvnor's mansion are dedicated to, with a little help from Assam's own
of course.
>Chandan Mahanta came up with "Statute of Limitation" in the USA
about which he accused that I did not know.
*** I don't know you much Himen da. But from what I did know from our
couple of encounters, I thought you are just as clever and informed a
person as the rest of us. And on that basis, your claim of being
clueless about my referring to the 'statute of limitations' is not
persuasive. First it was NOT about the ABX, it was about your thinly
disguised, fascist, Muslim-baiting, holding them to be invaders and
tyrants six hundred plus years after the fact and casting aspersions on
if not questioning directly their rights to citizenship in the land
where they have lived for millenia, just because a few centuries back
they changed their religious affiliation either under coercion or under
free will.
And coming from someone like yourself, who probably claimed US
citizenship with a mere five or so years in the country, enjoying the
benefits and protections of a secular society with a rule of law,it is
that much more unbecoming, hypocritical.
>About eighty years ago, my uncle, the late Indreswar Barthakur, drew
paintings of Sati Jaimati and Lachit. Those >paintings were very
inspiring.
>I do agree that the statue of Lachit at National Defence Academy and
the portrait of Shankardeva in Kharghuli may >not bring forth the
life-force of those departed souls. These art-works have been done by
commercial artists who >may not have felt the spirit of the departed
souls.
*** Good for you. I have not seen Barthakur's paintings, and thus
will refrain from attempting to judge them on their artistic merit. But
on the intellectual aspect of requiring an icon ( or idol ) of either
to draw inspiration from is a baggage you too carry from orthodox-Hindu
traditions, something Xonkordeu tried so hard to wean the people of
Assam from, but obviously not very successfully.
>I never asked anyone to build an ugly bridge, or to build a
sore-thumb for a statue.
*** One does not have to Himen-da. We can draw inferences from the
examples of all that have been erected thus far.
>. you and Chandan Mahanta should be members in the Selection
Committee.
*** You are kind. But if I were to be anywhere near there, I would
wear a placard on my neck and demonstrate against the idea as a
ludicrous one.
>I appeal to the "artists and architects and bridge engineers of
Assam" not to copy from anybody.
*** Personally, I believe a good copy of something creative in the
realm of public structures is a whole lot better than a bad or insipid
original.
Finally, on the protestations about your innocence on the
Hinduttwabadi appearance and the proof you cite to back it up--that
Hinduttwawallas attack you on your dowry abolition crusade, you forget
that we do know about the many shades that Hinduttwa exponents come in:
From the know-nothing,lumpen variety's crude and coercive methods to
the suave knowledge-brigades' slick attempts at revising history and
manufacturing pseudo-intellectual arguments like you have been
indulging in.
I don't enjoy having to resort to such strident language again here.
Even though I am very un-traditional and irreverent a kharkhowa, I do
treat my seniors with a degree of respect and deference. But you leave
me with little choice with your very poorly disguised but audacious
Muslim-baiting agenda, something you will find very few takers in Assam
Net.
Regards,
Chandan
At 8:55 AM -0500 1/29/06, Himendra Thakur wrote:
Dear Mukul,
In response to Saurav's question "<<<how much does the statue
of lachit at saraighat inspire people?>>>" you have replied "Not at all
! And we should have no Busts, Statues, Xetus, Tombs, -all alien to our
passing times. Everybody does his best in his time--and Go."
I have come to know that people of Nagaon has recently named a bridge
over the Kolong River after their beloved poet and named it "RATNAKANA
BARKAKOTI SAKO" --- a fitting tribute to a dear, adorable poet of
Assamese language. In my life, I cannot forget a bus ride I had from
Nagaon to Guwahati (it took 4 hours in those days) when I was suddenly
lucky to find that I was sitting next to poet Ratnakanta Barkakoti ---
that has remained a lifetime memory for me --- I was a young student at
that time. I don't want to write about that memory because Chandan may
again accuse me for citing anecdotes which he suspects as an effort for
drumbeating personal importance. I still think it is important (maybe
even "better") to talk from personal experience where we see the things
directly instead of reading in a book. But, restrained by Chandan, I
better refrain.
There are too much of suspicion, implication, blame, accusation,
insinuation, etc. in assam-net. The worst is stereotyping, like
"Christan Khasi" "Hindu Guvnor" "Scythian subgroup thukarian", etc.
While I proposed ATAN BURAGOHAIN SAKO and a Statue of Swargadeo
Chakradhwaja Sinha, Chandan Mahanta came up with "Statute of
Limitation" in the USA about which he accused that I did not know. He
vehemently opposed everything that I proposed by saying that the bridge
would be ugly, the statue would stand up like a sore-thumb, people
would dump garbage on (or, from) the bridge, etc., etc.
I never asked anyone to build an ugly bridge, or to build a
sore-thumb for a statue. Mine was an appeal to the artists, architects
and bridge-engineers . "I urge the artists and architects and bridge
engineers of Assam to imagine a graceful bridge with "poetry in its
geometry" .. "
About eighty years ago, my uncle, the late Indreswar Barthakur, drew
paintings of Sati Jaimati and Lachit. Those paintings were very
inspiring. I think those are now lost.
I do agree that the statue of Lachit at National Defence Academy and
the portrait of Shankardeva in Kharghuli may not bring forth the
life-force of those departed souls. These art-works have been done by
commercial artists who may not have felt the spirit of the departed
souls.
The problem can be solved by holding a competition of prototypes by
the "artists and architects and bridge engineers of Assam" and
selecting the best art-work . you and Chandan Mahanta should be members
in the Selection Committee.
I appeal to the "artists and architects and bridge engineers of
Assam" not to copy from anybody.
As for the practice of copying by young people, at a get-together at
Shankardev Kalakshetra in Guwahati in 2004, I was asked if I had any
advise for the your dramatists of Assam. My immediate response was:
"Don't copy anybody. Write right from your own heart, with your own
observations. It may be difficult at the beginning. But, very soon the
mind will open up."
The prototype art-work submitted in the competition (but not selected
as the final winner) maybe saved at a proposed riverside Museum where
people will see the noble efforts of all the "artists and architects
and bridge engineers of Assam" . people will be inspired, like they
were when they named "RATNAKANA BARKAKOTI SAKO" across our lovely
Kolong River.
Santanu Roy has objected about "simple yearning for a mythical golden
past or some attempt to turn back the clock of history and social
"progress" .. I did not propose ATAN BURGAHAIN SAKO "to turn back the
clock of history and social progress" . it is very clearly stated as "a
graceful bridge with "poetry in its geometry" as a permanent and
constant reminder of what we achieved in the past. "Atan Buragohain
Sako" is not for crossing a river. It will take us across three
centuries of Time to fill our heart with hope, glory, self-confidence,
self-sacrifice and a strong determination."
As for your comment "Kudos to Saurav-he is indeed Mr.-or Dr Logic ,
Dr analysis. I am proud for him"
I must say that I found a number of errors in his analyses and logic,
which I'll reply later. Right now, this letter is already too long.
With memories of good old days, and appealing to you to give up the
anti-India attitude,
Himendra
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>_______________________________________________
>assam mailing list
>assam@assamnet.org
>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
________________________________________________________________________
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and
industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
_______________________________________________
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
