Very well explained Rajen.
What you should have also pointed out was the outrageous and
blatant 'stereotyping' (actually the proper term would be bigotry) in
asserting that Islam does not allow music -- which would therefore
make all those of the sub-continent, past or present, who made great
music, un-Islamic heretics. Which fits well with the attempt of
certain elements in the Hinduttwa crowd to make all creative and
successful people 'Hindus' or Hindu-like.
It is a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black, but on
the sly, under the guise of not understanding the 'Holy Koran'and
thus, in the questioner's infinite humility, seeking some explanation
from knowledgeable netters.
Tsk, tsk :-)!
c
At 1:12 AM -0500 4/22/06, Barua25 wrote:
>IF Music is banned in Islam.
Looks like the above is your pre-conceived idea. Have you cared to find out if that is true.
It is like some Hindus telling that if a Hindu crosses the sea, he would loose his caste.
Would you then ask the question, how all these Hindus who came to America still remain Hindus?
Please make your own judgement for the rest of your questions. You will find your own answers.
Thanks
Rajen
----- Original Message -----From: Himendra ThakurTo: Barua25Cc: Dilip K. Datta ; Ram Sarangapani ; Manoj Das ; Indrajit Barua ; umesh sharma ; [email protected]Sent: Friday, April 21, 2006 11:29 PMSubject: Re: Identity and Violence--- by Dr. Amartya SenDear Rajen,
I have tried to avoid all pre-conceived assumptions. Let me break-up the questions, and add an explanatory question/note to each, in an effort to clarify my questions:
Question #1: How could Bade Gulam Ali Khan or Mohammad Rafi (who sang Hari Om in raga Malava kaushika) remain a Muslim and yet could sing those timeless melodies?
Explanatory question: IF Music is banned in Islam, how can one sing and remain a Muslim at the same time?
Question #2: How could Al-Khwarizmi remain a Muslim and yet pursue the pre-Islamic mathematical logic leading to algebra that could have given a Muslim child a free mind to turn into an athiest or a non-believer?
Explanatory question: IF all pre-Islamic logic/study/knowledge/books were banned by Islam, how could Al-Khwarizmi (780-850) continue to pursue the pre-Islamic mathematics and develop Algebra in the ninth century (two hundred years after Islam was introduced around 630 AD), and remain a Muslim at the same time?
Question #3: Do they allow study of science and mathematics in the madrassa schools today?
Explanatory note/question: Study of science and mathematics opens up the mind and a growing child asks questions even about the existence of God, not to speak of validity of religious rituals/habits like washing a little black stone as Shaligram Shila (like a Hindu) or wearing an exact length of beard (like a Sikh) [ I have a funny highnoon anecdote if anybody wants to hear ! ], etc., etc. As for the curriculum of the madrassa schools, we are thankful to Mr. Umesh Sharma who is running its discussion at the assam-net. In view of the terrible risk that a child may become an atheist or a non-believer, do they allow study of science and mathematics in the madrassa schools ?
Question #0: What is the truth ?
Explanatory note/question: It is important to see the truth by using logical analysis of facts/observations, historical or otherwise. The assertion of Dr. Amartya Sen that The Great Mughal emperor Akbar was born a Muslim and died a Muslim is not correct --- it is a kind of a preconceived idea --- because Akbar (1556-1605) did not die as a Muslim. He died (1605) as a follower of Din Ilahi.
Apparently, the Great Mughal Emperor Akbar legally codified minority rights, including religious freedom for all and pursued his liberal politics--- not according to Islam, but in violation of Islam. He started his own religion Din Ilahi. Unlike what Dr. Sen has asserted, it is very likely that Akbar did terminate being a Muslim because of his tolerantly pluralist politics. Otherwise, why did he start a new religion? By the same logic, it is very likely that Al-Khwarizmi pursued the pre-Islamic mathematics and developed Algebra in the ninth century not according to Islam, but in violation of Islam --- a point Dr. Sen may have missed. I hope our mathematics professor Dr. Dilip Datta of Rhode Island will help us with his insight. Is it not a fact that Aryabhatta discovered the solution of quadratic equation much before the 780 AD ?
On the other hand, it seems that Emperor Aurangzeb (1658-1707) was a true follower of Islam because he abolished all the minority rights, religious freedom, liberal politics introduced by Akbar. Aurangzeb reintroduced the Zizia Tax that was abolished by Akbar. Aurangzeb banned Music, just like what the Talibans (1996-2001) did 350 years later, confirming the fact that music is banned in Islam. One of great problem is that I, like many other people, do not understand the Holy Koran and do not understand all the rules of Islam. Thats why I am asking others to elucidate the matter.
With the best wishes,
Himendra
----- Original Message -----From: Barua25To: Himendra Thakur ; [email protected]Cc: Indrajit Barua ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Manoj Das ; Ram SarangapaniSent: Friday, April 21, 2006 8:15 PMSubject: Re: Identity and Violence--- by Dr. Amartya SenDear Himenda:Thank you for letting us know about Sen's latest book. However, I read your message twice but could not figure out what exactly you are asking. Your question seem to be based on certain pre concieved assumptions which is not clear and may be wrong, and that is why your question is not clear.Would you be more specific about what exactly you want clarifications on so that the netters can participate?ThanksRajen
----- Original Message -----From: Himendra ThakurTo: [email protected]Cc: Indrajit Barua ; Barua25 ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Manoj Das ; Ram SarangapaniSent: Friday, April 21, 2006 6:12 PMSubject: Identity and Violence--- by Dr. Amartya SenDear friends,
In his book Identity and Violence: The Illusion of Destiny published last month, Dr. Amartya Sen has crushed the prevalent habit of stereotyping people. The readers of assam-net who are quieted by loud stereotyping such as Khasi Christian, etc., may find some relief in reading this latest book of Dr. Sen. The conclusions made by Dr. Sen are generally based on historical instances.
However, Dr. Sen is a Nobel Laureate in Economics, not in history. His following observation need to be studied:
When, at the turn of the 16th century, the heretic Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake in Campo dei Fiori in Rome, the Great Mughal emperor Akbar (who was born a Muslim and died a Muslim) had just finished, in Agra, his large project of legally codifying minority rights, including religious freedom for all.
The point that needs particular attention is that while Akbar was free to pursue his liberal politics without ceasing to be a Muslim, that liberality was in no way ordainednor of course prohibitedby Islam. Another Mughal emperor, Aurangzeb, could deny minority rights and persecute non-Muslims without, for that reason, failing to be a Muslim, in exactly the same way that Akbar did not terminate being a Muslim because of his tolerantly pluralist politics.
Please examine this part of the above statement: Akbar was free to pursue his liberal politics without ceasing to be a Muslim, that liberality was in no way ordainednor of course prohibitedby Islam. Since I, like many other people, do not understand the Holy Koran, I request the scholars to elucidate whether this statement is correct.
Dr. Sen made another observation that
To see, for example, a mathematician who happens to be a Muslim by religion mainly in terms of Islamic identity would be to hide more than it reveals. Even today, when a modern mathematician at, say, MIT or Princeton invokes an "algorithm" to solve a difficult computational problem, he or she helps to commemorate the contributions of the ninth-century Muslim mathematician Al-Khwarizmi, from whose name the term algorithm is derived (the term "algebra" comes from the title of his Arabic mathematical treatise "Al Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah"). To concentrate only on Al-Khwarizmi's Islamic identity over his identity as a mathematician would be extremely misleading, and yet he clearly was also a Muslim.
I think an alternative example would have been better understood by people of India. According to Taliban, Music is banned in Islam, which prompted the Taliban to prohibit music in Afghanistan during their rule (1996-2001). On the other hand, in India, most of the top classical music artists are Muslim. We cannot forget Bade Gulam Ali Khan, Roshnara Begum, and Bismilla Khan --- who were our most beloved music maestros. Indian classical music rose to its pinnacle during the rule of Akbar (1556-1605). However, being a true follower of Islam, Aurangzeb (1658-1707) banned music in India.
What is the truth ? How could Bade Gulam Ali Khan or Mohammad Rafi (who sang Hari Om in raga Malava kaushika) remain a Muslim and yet sing those timeless melodies? How could Al-Khwarizmi remain a Muslim and yet pursue the pre-Islamic mathematical logic leading to algebra that could have given a Muslim child a free mind to turn into an athiest or a non-believer? Do they allow study of science and mathematics in the madrassa schools today?
Hoping to see some clarification,
With the best wishes,
Himendra
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