C'da,
>*** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a >shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care?
Yes, it would. But is that the situation in Assam? And if so, how many people are affected? Are affected numbers far greater than any other state?
Indentured peasants if they exist in India, are NOT state sanctioned.
Lastly, is your suggestion for solving India's (or Assam's) poverty ridden plight a communistic approach?
--Ram
On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, >differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are >socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic.
*** I am glad you have the ability to split hairs Ram :-).
I am however quite curious about the fine distinctions between living in a Kibbutz, in a communal arrangement, and the unacceptability of 'communistic'. Can you help ?
>And that is a plus point for China?
*** Is it a minus Ram? How would you describe it, had your parents been landless, indentured peasants, without a shelter to call it home and if the STATE came to your aid by ensuring you had food, shelter and health care? I am sure a lot of peple woud like to hear :-).
c-da
At 6:20 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:C'da>A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or >homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it?And that is a plus point for China? Lack of individual freedoms in China (and Cuba) are mandated by the state. Will that be sufficient for Assam - if the GOI were to provide homes, food and healthcare only?>*** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same?All I was saying is that Hitler like Castro and Marx did have a huge influence, a negative one, but none the less an influence.>*** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their >socialist/communistic sins?
>Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.I did know Israel was Communistic in governance. I would, however, differentiate between socialism and communism. Countries in Scandinavia are socialistic to a degree - doesn't make them communistic.--Ram
On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ram:
>C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to >get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.
*** I would not dare hold a candle to your goodness Ram :-).
>Marx and Castro obviously did have a huge influence on human civilization. So >did Hitler.
*** Considering your lumping all these three together to mean that they are all the same? Is your desi-hyperbole working overtime Ram :-)?
Also, even though Marxism might not be your cup of tea or mine, can you go tell that to Chinese? A nation way worse off than India 50 years back, now has no one going hungry or homeless or without health care, leaving Indian nationalists green with envy, isn't it?
Similarly for Castro. He may not be your hero, but Cubans seem to think differently, don't they? Unless of course you know what is best for Cubans :-).
>This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all.
*** What does that mean Ram? That them being democratic absolves them of their socialist/communistic sins?
Democracy is a TOOL Ram, it is NOT and end unto itself.
c-da
At 3:00 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
Ouch! C'da,>But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny >Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, >regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system >of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left >in the formation of contemporary human civilizationGood questions requiring deep thoughts. Marx and Castro obviously did have a huge influence on human civilization. So did Hitler. IMHO, we judge such personalities NOT by the amount of influence they had on civilizations, but by how much good they have done for humanity either thru their teachings or they way they ruled (Cuba).Both Marx and Castro have been absolute failures in that regard. Though Marz never raised a gun, he did manage to incite a number of countries (China, Indo-China comes to mind) who used/misused his doctrines to enslave huge populations for decades. That hopefully is not what those fighting for freedom in Assam want for the people of Assam.>There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all >around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram.I agree, but there is a whale lot of difference between people who might swear by a Gandhi and those by a Hitler or a Castro.Don't know much about the form of Govt. Israel has. This much I know, it is a democracy with kibbutzes and all. But about Begin turning 'freedom fighter', thats a pretty common these days of global politics. The same with Arafat, once a terrorist, then goes on to win the Nobel.C'da, wanting and fighting for freedom is a noble thing. The way some try to get it is often ignoble - and that is the problem.--Ram
On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I don't know Pradip Gogoi from Adam, Ram, even though he is a fellow Jokaisukiya from perhaps thirty miles or so from where I grew up. I don't know under what context he said what he did. But regardless of their political creed NO revolutionary could deny Castro his due place in the history of revolutions. Similarly, regardless of the failures ( or successes) of Marxism as a system of governance, no one can deny the enormous influence Marx left in the formation of contemporary human civilization.
>will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?
*** Even if I were to be in a position to answer such questions, I could not have answered such a vague question. What exactly is a communistic slant? Is Israel with its Kibbutzes ( Communes) and absence of private land-ownership and socialist governance 'communistic'; fit to be tarred and feathered with such simplistic labels ? How did Menachem Begin get rehabilitated as a 'freedom-fighter', while he was instrumental to blowing up Britishers and their installations and was once branded by them a 'terrorist'? What kind of cleansing solvent did Begin's followers find to wash off his 'terrorist' label?
There is way too much hypocrisy and self-serving piety going on all around us today to give such labels any credence at all Ram. Particularly by people who are informed and are able to reason.
c-da
At 12:31 PM -0500 8/16/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
C'daThanks for sharing that with us. Pretty interesting. Gogoi does have the tenacity and passion - one must give him that, even though I necessarily do not see things his way.Its is intriguing that his passion for independence is built upon the ideals of Marx and Castro.The question is, if people like him become leaders of an independent Assam, will there be a Communistic slant in their rule?Just thoughts.--Ram
On 8/16/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
ULFA's Pradip Gogoi in Tehelka:
http://www.fromallangles.com/newspapers/country/india/tehelka.com.htm
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