Re: [Assam] Sankaradeva vs Xongkordew

[Ram Sarangapani]

C'da,
 

>NOT constitute an insult to the Assamese language and to the Assamese >identity? WHAT is the logic?

 

That should cause indignation and people should tell the papers that the Newspapers have the responsibility to write such names in proper transliterated English - which must represent spoken Assamese as close as possible.

It is the sanctity of the language that is important here. The question of Assamese losing their indentity because th AT/Sentinel goofed up is as  far-fetched as saying there are no illegal B'deshis in Assam.

 

The war of identity needs a different thread. Th question of Assamese is being Sankritzed or Anglicized also needs a different page.

 

But if you try to buttress your arguments by bringing in identity, desi demokrasy, Sankritization, influence etc then the language is left elsewhere and it looks like there these other issues are affecting your thought process.:)

 

I pose the same questions to you (as I did to Barua)

 

Why? I will even answer that.

1) If Assamese ARE NOT losing their identity

2) If it was not Sankritized

Then will you accept "Sankaradeva" instead?

 

I hope, you and others would NOT on those grounds.

It is extremely simple:

 

IT should be "Xongordew" because THAT IS HOW ASSAMESE WANT it.  And that is how we would like others to pronounce it as well.

 

And let me add: let us assume it was not Sanskrit or Hindi

but it was English that was influencing Assamese. Would that make a difference (and you wouldn't really mind?)

 

>One who brought identity to the discussion--and stands by it :-).

 

And you did such a pretty good job of it that you had Barua convinced it was me and not you who brought it up. :)

 

--Ram

 

 

On 9/17/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

O'Ram:

 

WHY would not a Sanskritized ( or Hindified or whatever non-indigenous form) name of the singular icon of Assameseness,flaunted by one of Assam's flagship newspapers NOT constitute an insult to the Assamese language and to the Assamese identity? WHAT is the logic? What is the rationale?

 

How would you react to an Assam newspaper writing  Vimla Chaliha, or Chanderkant Handique or Anandram Baruah ?

 

If you can explain that, credibly, I am willing to re-consider my views on

Sankaradeva, a name that no Assamese speaker speaks that way.

 

Yours truly,

 

 

One who brought identity to the discussion--and stands by it :-).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 6:47 AM -0500 9/17/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

Barua,
 

>Tt is as simple as that.

>Question of identity comes later.

 

Now it seems you are getting the point. I was NOT the one who brought "identity" into this discussion.

Some netters did, so I wanted to know their reasoning behind that.

 

Thanks

 

Ram

 

 

 

On 9/16/06, Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Ram:

If your name is Ram, you want people to call you Ram, and not Rama or Rhama.

Tt is as simple as that.

Question of identity comes later.

Thanks

Rajen Barua

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ram Sarangapani

To: Barua25

Cc: Chan Mahanta ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 3:26 PM

Subject: Re: Sankaradeva vs Xongkordew

 

Barua,

>The way you are advocating for the Sanskrit spelling '>Sankaradeva' against Assamese spelling 'Xongkordew', is >same as advocating for (say) the spelling 'Pankaradeba' in >place of 'Xongordew' 

 

  I advocated NO SUCH THING. You are once again putting words in my mouth. Show me where I said that? And I am surprised you didn't catch th drift or essence of my posts on the subject.

 

I do not have a problem with the advocacy of  "Xongordew" or "Xongordeu".  In fact, I think that is how it should be.

 

But, if you going to tell me it is because Assamese are losing their identity, that is why it needs changing (in fact that was ONE reason advocated in the discussions), or because it is being Sankritized - I have a problem.

 

Why? I will even answer that.

1) If Assamese ARE NOT losing their identity

2) If it was not Sankritized

Then will you accept "Sankaradeva" instead?

 

I hope, you and others would NOT on those grounds.

It is extremely simple:

 

IT should be "Xongordew" because THAT IS HOW ASSAMESE WANT it.  And that is how we would like others to pronounce it as well.

 

You tell me, isn't that a good reason? Why do you need other reasons?

 

Nothing else matters - the other reasons some netters are trying to dish out are simply  frivolous.

 

And when such reasons are forwarded, it brings out other issues: ie maybe, this is more of an identity problem and not so much from maintaining the sanctity of the language itself.

 

And if you want to talk about Assamese losing their identity, by all means - let us discuss that, but as separate issue, as it a very important issue, IMHO.

 

>With this type of advocacy, you will qualify yourself to go >back to the basics of alphabet in Assamese and English

 

Hehehe! Guilty as charged. But aren't you glad though, that I am the only one?

 

And I hope this is all clear as mud :)

 

--Ram

 

On 9/15/06, Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>I had prefaced my argument with "devil's advocate' and my feelings on this are:

 

>Is writing out "Sankaradeva" not appropriate because

>(a) We know better now - it should be Xonkordeva

>(b) Because it is Sankritized (and we want nothing to do with that)

>(c) Its an identity crises

 

Ram:

I don't know whether you had relaised your position while adocating this way.  Sincerely, with this type of devil's advocacy, you are simply trying to prove that either you are clueless about the Assamese langauge as well as the English language. The way you are advocating for the Sanskrit spelling 'Sankaradeva' against Assamese spelling 'Xongkordew', is same as advocating for (say) the spelling 'Pankaradeba' in place of 'Xongordew'  I don't see any difference, and I too can put forward my devil's advocacy for the spelling 'Pankaradeba'  or any other 'bhusung pohu' spelling thus:

 

Is 'Pankaradeba' writing not appropriate because

(a) We know better - it should be Xongkordew?.

(b) Because it sounds foreign, and you donot want anything foreign (Osin kathor thwrakw nologaba)?.

(c) Its an identity crisis?

 

With this type of advocacy, you will qualify yourself to go back to the basics of alphabet in Assamese and English.

Rajen Barua

----- Original Message -----

From: Ram Sarangapani

To: Chan Mahanta

Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Dilip/Dil Deka ; Assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 11:58 AM

Subject: Re: [Assam] Book on life,ideals of Sankaradeva released(The Assam Tribune, 1...

 

C'da,

I thought I would go to some other topic butthought I too should get a chance to beat this dead horse - one last time.

 

>*** You have been unable to explain WHY Xonkordev should be >Sankaradeva.

 

I am surprised, C'da - you are assuming that "I" think it should be Sankardeva?

I had prefaced my argument with "devil's advocate' and my feelings on this are:

 

Is writing out "Sankaradeva" not appropriate because

(a) We know better now - it should be Xonkordeva

(b) Because it is Sankritized (and we want nothing to do with that)

(c) Its an identity crises

 

Just wanted to make sure we want it to be Xonkordev because that is how the Assamese prononce it - thats it - the best reason. Nothing else matters.

Why bring in stuff like identity, Sankritized, Hindi influence, or even the logical abilities of past literary people?

 

>*** Like Rajen explained very well, Oxomiya language does not >need Xongskrit or Hindi or Bengali approval to stand on its own

 

And did "I" claim it did? Not even hinted at that. Words in my mouth again.

 

>*** Oxomiyas need to know who they are what they call >THEMSELVES, first

 

True, and this you want to accomplish by transliterating in English? How big is that Oxomiya audience that seeks the English language to find out how to pronounce words in THEIR own language.

 

Whats wrong with the picture here? Am I missing something, or are you guys just catering to a select few?

I say, go for it.

 

>Bengalis, Hindiwallas etc. are free to pronounce it or write it the >way they see fit among themselves. But when they come to >Assam and call their hosts strange  names, they would do so at >their own risk.

 

And when they do come over to Assam, you are going to help these folks to properly pronounce Assamese words with the help of the English language. I would love to see the Bihari rickshawalla browsing for this transliteration in Ingrezi? Good luck again.

 

:)

 

--Ram

 

 

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