O' Deka:
>Also now I know where to go if I need Assamnet emails from
five to ten years >ago.
*** That would be a reasonable bet :-), even though not a totally
dependable source. I use Eudora as my e-mail application. What is good
about it is that it fetches the mail from the web and stores it in its
own folder, until you purge it. To keep the size manageable, I do
purge stuff time to time. That will be the only reason for not having
some of the mails. Another would be to find what we are looking for.
Key-word search helps out on that front. I knew Sanjib Baruah wrote an
explanation about it, and searching under his name I found the
info.
The other benefit is of course to be able to confront those who
try to attribute unpleasant, or untrue material to people using
cut-and-paste or out of context remarks or comments, like one
seraa-boliya does so often . And it is with that ability, I could take
on Er ( What is Er?) Arnab Jan Deka like I did this morning.
Because I have the goods handy, if I need to produce them :-).
>Is there really a lobby that lives off the money handled and
they don't want >the fountain stopped?
*** Is there a doubt? Why would ABV himself actually expand the
program for
example?
>On another note, what happened to Nalinaksha B.
*** I don't know. Nalin must have gotten tired of kharkhowa
tirades :-).
O' pack-rat m
At 1:59 PM -0700 9/25/06, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
So nothing has changed between 2001 and 2006. Even the recipients don't want the money but the money gets doled out anyway!
Is there really a lobby that lives off the money handled and they don't want the fountain stopped?
On another note, what happened to Nalinaksha B. who used write so frequently and so forcefully in this net? Just saw his name in the 2001 email.
Also now I know where to go if I need Assamnet emails from five to ten years ago.
Dilip
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>From: "Sanjib Baruah"
>To: "Rajib Das" , , ,
> "Chan Mahanta"
>Cc:
>Subject: Re: Zaziya and Kaphirs - defined in detail
>Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 14:30:37 -0400
>
>Dear Mahanta,
>
>Actually the subsidy is neither that old, nor the politics that obvious. I
>think it began in 1993. That was the year after the Babri Masjid
>demolition -- so you can have a political interpretation. On the other hand
>that was also a year after the organized haj pilgims began going by air.
>Mostly the subsidy is actually an air fare subsidy; and it is managed by the
>Civil Aviation ministry. It is connected to Air India being a government
>organization. The air fare was fixed at Rs. 12,000 and the cost per person
>has increased enormosly since then with the rise of the price of air fuel
>and what not and, with it the government subsidy component. Last year the
>Vajpayee government approached the Saudi government to increase the quota of
>Indian pilgrims and have substantially increased the subsidy amount.
>
>The politics surrounding it is more amusing than anything else. Apart from
>organizations like VHP, last year the Saudi government criticized the Indian
>subsidy as being contrary to the Shariat. Pakistan does not have any such
>subsidy! And in India no Muslim political organization ever asked for it.
>And now of course, it is managed by the BJP-led government. Among the
>changes it introduced (apart from increasing the subsidy amount), Air India
>now leases aircrafts from a US aviation company. BJP's Promode Mahajan
>defends it on grounds that it won't disturb Air India operations and that
>similar measures will be adopted for the Kailash-Mansarovar pilgrimage!
>
>Sanjib Baruah
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Chan Mahanta"
>To: "Sanjib Baruah" ; "Rajib Das" ;
>;
>Cc:
>Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 11:53 AM
>Subject: Re: Zaziya and Kaphirs - defined in detail
>
>
>> Very informative piece.>>
>>
>> What I am curious about is the origin of the HAj subsidy . What were the
>> reasons for adopting it at the birth of the country? Was it one of a
>series
>> of concession to the Muslims based on religious considerations because
>they
>> wanted a separate country of their own for reasons of not getting a fair
>> shake from the Hindu majority ? In other words was it a grant, so to say,
>> of a non-secular nature, for a presumably secular India not to lose many
>> more Muslims to Pakistan which could have meant losing additional
>territory
>> as well?
>>
>>
>> Without a doubt religious subsidies to a particular group is not
>compatible
>> with its secular imaginations. But can we really look at it with
>integrity,
>> if we choose to avoid looking at the reasons for which the whole thing was
>> adopted to begin with? That brings us to the second part of the equation:
>> Have the conditions for which it was adopted changed substantially today-
>> namely a widespread anti-Muslim bias in the country? I would be the first
>> to acknowledge that Haj subisidy, or religion based marriage laws and
>> similar other institutions incompatible with a nation's secular
>> imaginations are poor ways to deal with the issues--even wrong! But given
>> the conditions of the time when these were adopted, what could have been
>> some better ways?
>>
>>
>> Amartya Sen discussed these issues, very believably, in an adress that
>> Nalinaksha once forwarded to the net. But I don't think even he had a
>> ready-made, immediately applicable solution.
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately appropriate solutions to such inappropriate methods for
>> building the secular character of a nation is extremely unlikely to be
>> found in an environment where the MUslim minority is singled out by the
>> Hindu majority for persecutuion, harassment and demonization thru a myriad
> > of ways, as we have witnessed in recent years. What is truly disingenuous
>> is the approach of the secularism baiting Hindu chauvinists, who attempt
>to
>> have it BOTH WAYS: Those who " xaap hoi khwte aru bez hoiw jaare" :-).
> >
>> cm
>>
>>
>> At 5:45 AM -0400 8/25/01, Sanjib Baruah wrote:
>> >Thought this would be of interest to the discussion. The question of Haj
>> >subsidy is intensely debated among Muslims in India.
>> >Apart from the issue of subsidy itself, as it happens with public funds
>in
>> >India so often, the question of corruption is also part of the debate.
>The
>> >following editorial is from a publication called Islamic Voice.
>> >
>> >http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/editorial.htm
>> >
>> >Scrap Haj Subsidy
>> >
>> >
>> >There seems to be something murky about the question of subsidy being
>> >offered by the Government of India towards the air-fare for the Haj
>> >pilgrims. In his public announcements, Haj Committee Chairman Mr.
>> >Salamatullah claims the subsidy amounts to Rs. 5,000 for each pilgrim.
>But
>> >going by the figures for the total subsidy claimed by the Haj Committee
>from
>> >the Government of India for the Haj 1998 i.e., Rs. 123 crore, it is clear
>> >that the amount is somewhere around Rs. 18,777 for each pilgrim. It may
>be
>> >recalled that nearly 66,000 pilgrims performed Haj this year under the
>> >auspices of the Central Haj Committee. The gap between the announcement
>and
>> >the demand of subsidy is too yawning to be ignored. Obviously, everything
>is
>> >not hunky-dory in the Committee. The Haj Committee cannot continue its
>game
>> >of fooling the Muslims and the Government for long. It is time it
>explained
>> >its act. There is all the scope to probe if somebody, somewhere is
>keeping
>> >someone in the dark, if not exactly making a cut. There are two aspects
>to
>> >the question. First is the legitimacy of the subsidy demanded as a right
>by
>> >the Committee and the second is the issue of making the Haj less
>expensive.
>> >The two issues should not be confused with each other and need to be
>dealt
>> >separately by the Muslims. Haj subsidy is violative of the spirit of Haj
>and
>> >is expected to come under public scrutiny, for no secular dispensation>could
>> >continue with such a blatantly partisan largesse for the rich section of
>> >Muslims. As for the former, let it be recognised that Haj is an Islamic
>> >obligation for those who can afford the costs involved in its
>performance.
>> >That today's governments undertake to organise the pilgrimage should be
>no
>> >excuse to demand the subsidy. There can be no justification for this kind
>of
>> >largesses. It will be morally inaccurate for Muslims to even demand
>> >subsidies for Haj even under an Islamic governance.
>> >
>> >But as the facilitator for all such affairs, it will be quite legitimate
>to
>> >explore all avenues for making the travel cheaper and journey
>comfortable.
>> >But the current ongoings within the Haj Committee point to something that
>> >fits into no category of rules. The Committee owes an answer to the
>Muslims
>> >and the Government alike as to where the huge amount of money is going.
>It
>> >does not behove an organisation like Haj Committee to maintain so vast a
>> >disparity in its professions and practice. The Haj Committee is
>> >illegitimately bleeding the Government to subsidise air travel for Muslim
>> >Hajis in a country where the subsidies for even rationed food from the
>> >Public Distribution System are being withdrawn in a phased manner under
>the
>> >Structural Adjustment Programme. Not alone this. Taking advantage of
>these
>> >sops, rich Muslims are becoming habituated to repeat pilgrimages year
>after
>> >year, something undesirable in Islam itself.
>> >
>> >Besides the need to come clean on the large amount of subsidy (Rs. 18,000
>> >against the declared sum of Rs. 5,000), the Haj Committee also needs to
>> >explain as to why and how the airfare between Jeddah and various
>> >destinations within India is pegged at Rs. 30,000 (only Rs. 12,000 being
>> >recovered from the pilgrims.) This is a grossly inflated amount, given
>the
>> >fact that different airlines and tour operators provide the air travel on
> > >the route for Rs. 22,000. Understandably, the Committee would explain
>away
>> >the reason that the Haj travel by chartered flights involves two empty
>> >flights by the chartered aircraft, first after unloading the passengers
>at
>> >Jeddah and later while flying to Jeddah to collect back the Hajis. But
>then
>> >chartering aircraft itself should have meant substantial decrease in
>> >expenses. No air operations are as huge as Haj in India. There is need to
>> >look into the chartering arrangements by an independent committee
>comprising
>> >aviation experts. Role of the chartering committee and Air India should
>be
>> >probed in this context. Perhaps, provision could be made to use the empty
>> >flights to bring Gulf Indians to the country provided the Saudi
>authorities
>> >permit such passenger operations. Such an arrangement would greatly bring
>> >down the cost of chartered operations.
>> >
>> >In this connection, the suggestion to constitute a Haj Air Corporation by
>> >Mr. Rahman Khan, member of Parliament, is worth considering. Mr. Khan has
>> >called for setting up this Corporation with a capital of Rs. 500 crore on
>> >the lines of arrangements in Malaysia. Each half of the capital could be
>> >raised through shares from Muslims of India and the Government. According
>to
>> >proposals, the capital could be invested in buying aircraft which besides
>> >carrying pilgrims during the Haj season, would be leased out for
>commercial
>> >operations during non-Haj season.
>> >
>> >But the point at issue currently is to probe the subsidy question which
>> >unless tackled immediately, would, in all likelihood, provide a handle to
>> >the fascist organisations to extract political mileage.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Rajib Das"
>> >To: ;
>> >Cc:
>> >Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2001 7:44 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Zaziya and Kaphirs - defined in detail
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Isn't subsidizing the cost of Haj pilgrimage anti-Islamic? And isn't
>that
>> >> why no other country in the world provides subsidy....
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >From: Santanu Roy
>> >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >> >CC: [email protected]
>> >> >Subject: Re: Zaziya and Kaphirs - defined in detail
>> >> >Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 22:57:48 -0400
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _________________________________________________________________
>> >> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
>http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
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