C'da,
Hope you don't mind my butting in.
For a change, lets us turn the tables around. Since you make most of the
accusations about mal-governance etc, and since you never seem to accept any
solutions to the myraid of problems many of us propose, let us see some of
your solutions.
>If so, how do you propose to empower the IGNORANT POPULACE to fight back,
demand accountability and get it?
Ok - so how do you propose demanding accountability from the system. Now, if
you believe that the populace in NOT ignorant, can you tell us why they have
been silent all this while, what, and how do you propose that they get out
from under this mess?
>You give a free pass to a colonialist Center, who steals from the many of
Assam and >enriches a few by re-distributing it without exercising its
controls over how it gets >disbursed or giving the* ignorant populace* the
tools of a functioning democratic >state to* exercise their controls.*
**
I don't think anyone is giving the Center a free pass. What most of us are
saying is that there is a "responsibility" factor for Assam. The Center has
its faults, but as we have stated over and over again, why have people in
OTHER states fared better under the same dysfunctional system? What are they
doing (or not doing) "different" than Assam?
What then is YOUR solution for Assam to at least be at par with some of the
better states (at least in the areas in which they are functional)?
Your oft repeated quasi-solutions amounts to "change the system", "fix the
dysfunctional democracy". Easier said than done, and one long-term solution
that will come about.
Also, about the "colonist center" (Delhi) - would it help if Delhi were
replaced by a "colonist Dispur" or a "colonist Dakha" vis-a-vis Assam? :)
But the people of Assam has no business accepting such half-a**ed
propositions
Fair enough. So, what is your grand plan for Assam?
How does Assam get out from under this inescapable tyranny from Delhi?
And we wait with bated breath:):)
--Ram
On 11/30/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Sandip Dutta:
>That is the hallmark of an ignorant society. While the ones capable of
making a >difference only want to reap undue benefits from high office,*an equally
>ignorant populace either goes about just accepting things or
just >blaming the "centre" - for the centre is a convenient scapegoat.*
** Was this not where we started?
If so, how do you propose to empower the IGNORANT POPULACE to fight back,
demand accountability and get it?
** And would people blame the Center, if it did NOT CONTROL the resources,
held the controls over the purse strings, set down the laws and devised the
law-enforcement and adjudication mechanisms that do not work?
*Who would YOU hold responsible under the circumstances and why?*
Obviously you hold the* ignorant Assam populace* responsible, except you
could not be bothered by the fact that the Indian system of laws and its
enforcement
apparatus , that people in a democratic system use to control and fight
CORRUPTION are dysfunctional, and would not raise your voice for REFORMS,
while
criticizing those who do as "-- have nothing alternative to say".
You give a free pass to a colonialist Center, who steals from the many of
Assam and enriches a few by re-distributing it without exercising its
controls over how it gets disbursed or giving the* ignorant populace* the
tools of a functioning democratic state to* exercise their controls.*
And we are to think you are a part of that vaunted desi-knowledge-brigade
and not a part of the IGNORANT POPULACE?
That is delusion, if not unmitigated gall, is how I see it.
>Corruption is endemic in the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan
too on >an even much greater scale
*** Why not go a step further and include the whole world? After all it is
a human trait, isn't it? And that is exactly why more intelligent people
devised
ways to control it, by PUNISHING bad behavior and REWARDING good,
something even the ranks of the* ignorant populace* understand-- as in
raising children, but which seems to be beyond the grasp of apologists of
desi-demokrasy.
Oh we know why! Because they know that India is incapable of change, of
reforms.
So they settle for 'doing better' while remaining mired in
desi-governance.
To acknowledge it would pull the rug from under the feet of their argument
that Assam's disaffections are imaginary, or that they are their own damn
fault.
But the people of Assam has no business accepting such half-a**ed
propositions.
>The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam
they >dont.
*** So how do you propose to CHANGE this? Puja? Prayers? Bribery of the
gods? Internet Gaali? Or wishful thinking? What?
>Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is
it >they work in a few and dont in others?
*** If they do, why Pres. APJAK's calls for eradicating corruption, why
the call for a commission to set up a HongKong style corruption fighting
mechanism, why the call for STRICT enforcement of laws?
The big question he did not address was HOW he would accomplish all that ?
>Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles,
a >bharat-darshan is long overdue for you.
*** I quote them to keep those who are either ignorant or are unwilling to
see
the real truths about India, in line.
Yes, I would like to have a Bharat Darshan. But I don't think it will
improve my perceptions of India, only worsen it. And I know Assam quite
well, perhaps a whole lot more than most in this forum.
cm
At 2:20 AM -0800 11/30/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Dear Sir:
*******But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more
clues and see if that helps
I got all your hints but your problem is that you keep hammering in the
same old point and you have nothing alternative to say. You want to change
the whole system? You could give us a few hints on what ideas you have and
how you plan to go about it? Maybe we can then reflect on your noble
thoughts?
My intention was never to sully Oxomiya society. Corruption is endemic in
the whole of south asia. It happens in Pakistan too on an even much greater
scale and they dont follow any version of our desi demokrasy - at least for
now. But the question is why in spite of this problem, some states do better
than others? In case you dont understand what I mean, ask yourself why so
many Assamese have successful lives in Mumbai or Bangalore and would NOT
consider returning and its not the other way round?
The reason is that many things actually work in those states. In Assam
they dont.
If you want to understand the difference in the scale of corruption, you
might want to compare how a Ticket collector behaves on a train in Kerala or
Tamil Nadu compared to one in Assam.
Institutions have been built in the same way in both places - but how is
it they work in a few and dont in others? Only the local controllers are to
blame and no one else.
Rather than just sit there and quote from pessimistic newspaper articles,
a bharat-darshan is long overdue for you. You will actually get to see
differences in the way supposedly the SAME things work.
Rgds,
SD
----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Cc: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 2:13:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Hi:
I did not follow up, hoping you will be able to connect the dots with the
not-so-subtle hints that I posted.
But since subtlety often goes unheeded, allow me to give some more clues
and see if that helps. I will refrain from connecting the dots myself,
because spoon-feeding usually is rejected by those who are sure they know
the answers and are thus not to be patronized by others:
*** WHY is it that all these representatives and their LEADERS,
that the people of Assam elect, throw them out, elect them again,
or elect a whole new slate or party in the fine traditions of
desi-demokrasy; remain UNRESPONSIVE and as our philosophically
endowed explain as "jeyei lankaloi jai, xeyei raabon hoy"
( whoever goes to Lanka, becomes a Ravan)?
There is a serious problem here isn't it?
*** Let us take the often bled-over subject of CORRUPTION that you
raised, to smear the entire Oxomiya society as an uniquely sullied
one and as Ram seconded.
Is corruption hard to notice? If not how come NOTHING happens
about it? Apparently Indian govt. system has ALL the institutional
mechanisms that FUNCTIONING societies USE to investigate,prosecute
adjudicate and punish the guilty with, at least on paper.
And some of our learned friends also tell us that Indian judiciary
is
among the world's best.
So, how come NO ONE gets convicted and get punished?* What seems*
* to be the matter?*
Punishment of the guilty is more than mere thirst for blood,
yen for retribution. It is a* deterrence*. And in civilized
societies it is also creates a social stigma -- a very effective
deterrence, because it smears friends, relatives, families as
well.
Deterrence comes in many forms.The most reliable and lasting
deterrence
is moral and ethical compunctions. We know that in western
societies
traditionally FAITH and RELIGION helped inculcate and EDUCATION
that promotes critical inquiry helped spread and firmly embed it
with an intellectual foundation.
But moral and ethical compunctions are NEVER enough. I have
argued many times in this forum, not very effectively obviously,
that the state cannot depend entirely on the MORAL code: It
also needs civil and criminal codes, that are ENFORCEABLE. That is
why
pronouncements like ABV's -- That 'people should NOT be so
greedy',
or APJAK's -- that ' that Manjunath was a righteous man who came
from a righteous family and we must strive to make
more righteous families.'or MMS' that 'your CMs can make all the
laws in the world, but what will you do with them' are so
abysmally clueless as corruption fighting steps.
*** You gave us a fairly reasonable account of how the monies
spent
in Assam for building roads do not produce the results expected. I
posted Tavleen Singh's columns to demonstrate that Assam is not
unique
in this predicament, that it is 'pervasive across the length and
breadth of India'.
It was NOT, as some of you simple-mindedly assume, to absolve
Assam govt. of its sins. Some in the past even made the
scatologically
smearing Oxomiya observation " moi gu-khaale toi-w khabi neki ?"
So WHY do I cite them?
* For a very important reason: To show that nowhere in India*
* the CORRUPT are/could be held accountable.*
*** Now I want YOU to figure that out. Give it a little thought.
I like to think you are more than able to. But I also realize that
you
and others like you, never having seen any different, and never
paying
attention elsewhere in the world where they might have lived,
failed
to NOTICE why or how.
But again I will give you some clues: Read my note to Dilip Deka
and
ex-Chief Secy. JP Rajkhowa on Nov. 18. If you don't have access to
it, let me know, I will be pleased to re-send.
*** I like to think you are sincere in your efforts to understand
the issues. Therefore I hope to receive a response. We don't know
many things. It is NOT a sin not to know things. I always argue
that I don't OWE it to anyone to know ANYTHING, much less
EVERYTHING.
But if you go silent,* like so many others often do*, it will mean
only one thing: That you are NOT sincere about your motives. That
ALL you are interested in is asserting Assamese disaffections are
Oxomiya society's own damn fault, 'So don't bother me with facts!'
-- like you did when you began this thread.
cm
At 3:49 AM -0800 11/29/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Dear Sir,
Whats new in this article?
This is the same point I was trying to make but you said I was ignorant
(perhaps you didnt get it :-) ). WE too have local Sharad Pawars and
Thakreys right here in Assam and they do the same things with central
allocated money. Guwahati's moonscaped "roads" tell the same story of
corruption and deprivation originating right here at home.
Rgds,
Sandip
----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 2:17:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
I am re-posting the following for Ram and Sandip Dutta to read, before I
return back to the discussions.
cm
Horrible Condition of our Roads
On the Spot
Tavleen Singh
The first convoy of official cars I encountered, driving to Pune
last week, flew saffron flags on every car of the size you normally
see atop temples. My driver spotted Bal Thakeray in one of the white
ambassadors. No sooner did we pass Mcdonald's in Panvel (a
travellers' watering hole) than I spotted another official convoy.
This time no saffron flags, only a car filled with policemen in
front of a grey Land Cruiser behind which was another car also filled
with policemen and officials. Alone in the back of the Land Cruiser
sat Sharad Pawar.
The coincidence of encountering Maharashtra's two most powerful
political leaders on the same journey made me reflect upon the role
of politics in preventing India from building the infrastructure it
so badly needs. Pawar and Thakeray would have driven down the same
road I had taken from Mumbai so they could not have failed to notice
its condition. It is no longer a road so much as a dirt track on
which you bump your way from ditch to ditch to ditch. This is after
you have driven bumper to bumper past Chembur's hideous slums where
public toilets are so clogged that people prefer to squat along the
main road beside the rotting garbage in which pigs, dogs and
barefoot children scrabble for food. Did Mr Pawar notice? Did Mr
Thakeray who has built a political career out of inciting Marathi
pride?
Mumbai is Maharashtra's proudest possession. Any talk of it being
taken out of the State Government's control causes hackles to rise
across political divisions and yet none of this State's mighty
leaders appears to have paid any attention to the most basic
requirements of social infrastructure: clean water, sanitation and
housing. Had they paid attention, then instead of slums in Chembur
there would have been affordable housing for the poor.
Instead of evil slum lords there would have been legitimate real
estate companies controlling the housing market.
As for the dreadful condition of Indian roads, please allow nobody
to fool you into believing that our roads are bad because of a
shortage of funds. They are bad mainly because they have been built
to last no longer than a single season of rain. Why? Perhaps because
the contractors who build them are well connected enough to be given
the same contract every year. You notice this more on the drive from
Mumbai to Pune than on any other road because when you get onto the
expressway you realize that India can build roads that do not
collapse with the rain.
Once you get onto the expressway you drive along the best road in
India that has remained totally intact despite this year's
unprecedented rainfall. When I asked a friend in the construction
business why this was so he said, "Simple. The Mumbai-Pune
expressway was built by responsible construction companies with
reputations to protect.* Usually roads are built either by faceless*
*CPWD engineers or by small contractors with big connections."*
So one of the flaws in the system is that political leaders hand out
major road contracts to builders who would not pre-qualify to build a
public toilet in a more sensible country. The reason for this is
that the system we devised for these things places total emphasis on
cost and none on quality. He who makes the lowest bid wins the
contract, so to cover his costs he cuts corners and uses cheap
materials and outdated technology.
He could not care less if the road he builds does not survive a
single monsoon because he has, more often than not, a connection
high up enough for him to get the contract to rebuild the road again
and again.* This is true across the length and breadth of our dear
Bharat Mata which is why we are internationally renowned for having*
*the worst roads in the world.*
I got off the expressway at Chinchwad which is one of Maharashtra's
leading industrial towns. Many of India's biggest manufacturing
companies have factories here and the municipality is believed to be
one of our richest but the road I drove down was so narrow and
gutted that I was stuck in an hour long traffic jam consisting
mainly of massive articulated lorries with names like MAERSK painted
on their sides. The eternal clash between the new 'emerging' economy
and our ancient, socialist infrastructure.
The clash would not exist if only we could get our political leaders
to understand that unless they put infrastructure (both social and
physical) at the top of their list of priorities we will still be
talking about our 'potential' to be an economic superpower fifty
years from now. If we can just build the roads and do something
about the appalling state of our cities and towns we can start
making our economic superpower dream a reality in the next five
years.* These were the gloomy thoughts of your humble columnist as I
drove past a sign that warned motorists to be careful on the upcoming*
*bridge because its condition was 'dangerous.'* If we were really on
our way to superpowerdom then instead of the sign we would have seen
a repaired bridge. I could go on and on and on.
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