Hello C: >All I wanted was to know from who else?
*** Before you bank on what you perceive as your check-mate move, you, or anyone who is halfway sincere or informed , ought to examine where and how those voices could be aired. Tell me, C, if you wrote a letter to any newspaper in Assam , making a set of intellectual arguments (not a call for armed rebellion now--that would be a different issue) about why independence is essential for Assam to carve out its place in the community of nations, WHO would publish it? Or can you or anybody else, get the air time to express those views to the general public? Or for that matter, if you write a book and try to publish it, if anyone will? And if you had one printed, clandestinely, if anyone will sell it on the streets or book-stores of Guahati or anywhere else in Assam? *** I hope you know the answer. And in that context, can you or Ram or anybody else explain to us, if such refusal would be because none in Assam would want hear or read of it because of their devotion to Indian dependence and NOT out of a fear of retribution of the Indian state? *** So, the whole assertion that there is NO reasoned voice about an aspiration for independence is a myth, concocted by those who want NO change to the status-quo, which has served their lots well. It merely underscores the point, that a section of the populace has done very well--thanks to Indian government's policy of looting the people of the region and then redistributing portions of it to enrich a few. And why would that segment of the beneficiaries of this reverse Robinhood-ism of Indian governance, faithfully implemented by its local stooges, want the golden goose killed? *** When you or Ram and others declare that they and their kin do not want independence, what they really mean is that they do not want to upset the status quo from which they befitted. That they do not want changes to the system that has kept the people of Assam from seeking their place in the sun. Oh they go froth in the mouth complaining about it, and their hearts bleed about how vast segments of the people are left behind, except that they cannot or would not want any change to what has brought them where they are. *** I have heard all the protestations about how they all want change and reforms. They want corruption ended. They want better management of the state's resources. They want justice for all. They also have seen, for decades on end, how the Indian state and its proxies in the State Houses or the institutions of state are stuck in the mud,totally unable to demonstrate even a rudimentary amount of change, of reforms, of progress. Only problem here is thay are unable to reconcile the dichotomy. They are clueless. *** I hope you are not that clueless Chitta. If you or others can demonstrate that YES , reforms are possible, change is possible, able management of the state's resources for the benefit of all its people -- not just its privileged -- is possible, that Assam's ethnic, cultural, language and historical identity would not be obliterated under the prevailing Indian rule, you might be able to persuade me, and others like me, that perhaps Assam could do without independence. *** Now it is YOUR turn, and Ram's turn to put your money where your mouths are and show us! Mind you mere assertions are not good enough. Asking rhetorical questions about how Gujarat or Karnataka are doing better would be meaningless. You will have to show where and how change is taking place that Assam can bank on. Shall we? > >1) 95% of people in the recent poll rejected ULFA >rejected Swadhin Asom concept *** If this is the kind of thing you believe in, you must also believe in the tooth fairy. I am sure you present this not as a serious argument, but running short on facts throwing in whatever is available. Not b very thoughtful. Does not do anything to your credibility. Actually it damages it. > >2) 30,000 people in Guwahati swayed to Bhupen >Hazarika's "We are not sessionist" or something like >that song at the National Games opening ceremony >yesterday. *** I'll be danged! That does prove it all then Huh? Sorry C, I tried to control my acerbic side, but this is too much :-). m-da At 7:54 PM -0800 2/9/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote: >Mahanta da >Thanks-Tangentialy you answered my ACE question. But I >stand vindicated because you were not able to point me >towards any place , community, district, region in >particular from where you hear the muffled cry for >independence. >Instead you pointed towards ULFA-is that a revealation >to us? All I wanted was to know from who else? >I never for once judged whether this wish, call, >desire for freedom is just or unjust. All I wanted to >know from you was whether in 2007 you believe majority >still wants independence. I know you realise that most >do not-all have become infidels with their minds >fogged by pan-Indianess-except ULFA. >But still there is a wish/dormant belief in you that a >referendum in Assam will prove all of us wrong. >By bringing this referendum talk, Mahanta da -here you >are cornering yourself even more. >Tell me Mahanta da, whether following are any tell >tell signs of an Yes to independence in Assam? >1) 95% of people in the recent poll rejected ULFA >rejected Swadhin Asom concept >2) 30,000 people in Guwahati swayed to Bhupen >Hazarika's "We are not sessionist" or something like >that song at the National Games opening ceremony >yesterday. >Tell me Mahanta da-they are not people of Assam. Even >if there was a semblance of conviction about our wish >for independence-10%, 5% or 1% of people could have >walked out. >These were the same people who boycotted the 83 >election and turnout was 10% and there was not any gun >trotting AASU guys on street. But passion was >there-because the majority felt the cause to be just. > >You know Mahanta da-I can really go on-do you want me >to? >What do you have to say on this? > >*** So let me take a stab at your re-phrased ACE >question, even though to address it in isolation, >without attempting to understand what 'independence' >means is at best a silly endeavor. But I know why it >bothers you to delve into the issues associated with >'independence'. It will merely help perpetuate the >conflict that besets Assam. The choice is yours. You >can run from the issues all you want, but you cannot >hide. So I hope you as a well wisher of Assam, who >has seen better, would want to apply the lessons >learnt, to contribute towards betterment of Assam's >lot instead of helping perpetuate what is killing it. > >NOT AT ALL Mahanta da-I was trying to know apart from >ULFA who all were there to throw some light on this >issue associated with "independence". I will have my >field day with the questions I have. Wish I could get >reply from those in ssamnet and beyond. Cause >otherwise you will have bear the mantle-which I know >you would. >Regards > >Chitta >Ram da >It is not me and Mahanta da. Me and many others like >would know what this is all about? How come we are so >ignorant about the ground realities in Assam? And if >we are convinced that there is some voice/desire for >freedom from a significant portion of people. What >plan the believers have with them to go further on. >Because freedom is not the end, it is the beginning. >Discussing those would be even more interesting. >But we will get to the end of it-some day >Regards >Chittaranjan > >--- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> C'da & Chitta, >> >> This is getting more interesting by the second. But >> I will let Chitta fend >> for himself (and has ably done so this far). >> >> Just wanted to touch on a small part, and then I >> will butt out. >> >> >So why don't YOU raise your voice to put an end to >> that debate, by >calling >> for a free >and fair referendum after a period of >> unfettered and >informed >> public debate and >discussion? With the highly >> revered >Election Commission >> with its stellar record at >hand to guarantee the > > >fairness of an outcome, >> what seems to be the problem :-)? >> >> Calls for a referundum are a common ploy by > > insurgents and those who think >> they are fighting for some noble cause. What they >> really want to do is to >> put the onus on the country. Its like saying - >> 'prove that I'am wrong'. Such >> a ref. would be great for insurgents - it shows that >> at last someone is >> paying attention to them, and also if such a thing >> is ever held, all they >> have to do is brandish their weapons, kill some who >> dare to stand up, and >> the rest of the people will fall in line and vote >> for the cause (or so they >> hope). The last thing anyone will see is a 'free & >> fair' ref. >> >> You see it in Kashmir, and you see it in Assam. >> Now, why should a country try to prove anything to a >> group of insurgents, >> who possess only stolen money and guns (but no >> principles). And further, why >> should the country want to do that when >> >> (a) its against its constitution to give >> independence to some portion just >> because a group of wannabes want it >> >> ((b) No govt. in the state or Center has the right >> to give in to such a ref. >> as Assam is NOT their's to give away to insurgents. >> All Assamese want is that the Govt. fulfill its >> obligations to the state >> (which it hasn't done effectively for the past so >> many years). And this does >> not tantamount to seeking independence. >> >> (c) And lastly, and more importantly, most people in >> the state want to >> remain a part of India. >> >> --Ram >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 2/9/07, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> > >> > Hi C: >> > >> > >> > I changed the subject right back. "The Minority >> Assamese" smacks of a >> > persecution complex based on ethnic,linguistic or >> cultural identity. For >> > people like you or I, world-citizens, that would >> be a rather unbecoming >> > complaint. We ought to pursue more relevant and >> concrete issues. >> > >> > >> > No I don't think 'Answers for Chitta ' is at all >> personal. We have had >> > many such >> > discourses in assamnet in the past. But if it >> still bothers you, you are >> > welcome to change it to something different. But >> let us not get into such >> > things as Assamese ethnic persecution complex. We, >> the caste- Assamese, have >> > little room to complain about that, if you know >> what I mean. >> > >> > >> > Allow me to clarify a few of your misconceptions, >> before we get back to >> > your questions. And I will continue to resort to >> cutting and pasting the >> > questions >> > to post my response, so that the reader, if there >> is any, can follow the >> > context; in spite of your fears about it appearing >> too argumentative. I have >> > no problems with that, if YOU don't. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >Bottom line is Mahanta da just because of I am >> based >> > >> > >in Perth or you know my family or my immediate >> background , >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > *** I don't know anything about you or yours. I >> don't need to. And I never >> > would have asked the question, had you NOT >> prefaced your questions with: >> > >> > >> > But not all of them-not the ones I know >> of.* As far as my >> > relatives,* >> > * friends, parents,brothers, numerous >> cousins spread all* >> > * over Assam are concerned (and if you >> consider them "my own* >> > * people"),freedom from India is not much >> of an issue for them.* >> > >> > >> > I don't take issue with your bringing your kin >> into the equation. They are >> > the people we know and understand most. However, >> when you or I extend the >> > lessons learnt from that to apply all over Assam, >> or to the vast majority of >> > Assam as you do, then we must examine the validity >> of the premise. Whether >> > what you and your kin represent is the NORM for >> the rest of Assam? >> > >> > >> > Do you still see my inquiry therefore an >> illogical or irrelevant one, >> > designed to obfuscate as you insinuate? >> > >> > >> > Now, should you not feel trapped by this request, >> you can do it , without >> > divulging specific personal details, like: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Grandparents from Lower Assam, rural, >> subsistence farmers > > > with adequate arable land ( or landless >> sharecroppers, or scions >> > of Zamindars, or school teacher in British > > Assam -- so on and so >> > forth) >> > >> > >> > Father, one of six siblings, local high >> school topper, MSc GU, >> > IAS. Mother, daughter of High Ct clerk. Or >> Father BSc, Xorobhwg >> > College, >> > Local High School teacher, mother daughter >> of local Mahajan. >> > Grew up in thatched hut, but now have >> poka-ghor, owns a motor >> > scooter. >> > So on and so forth. >> > >> > >> > I worked hard, studies at distant High >> School with a Christian >> > Saint's >> > name, three stars at HS, IIT-Mumbai in >> Comp. Science, now at >> > Perth. >> > Three Siblings--a doctor, a college >> teacher and a businessman. >> > Twenty two cousins ( by last count), >> spanning from aspiring IAS to >> > AEC Engineer to Wineshop Owner to >> rice-farmers to a black-sheep in >> > the >> > ULFA. So on and so forth. >> > >> > >> >=== message truncated === > > > > > >____________________________________________________________________________________ >Bored stiff? Loosen up... >Download and play hundreds of games for free on Yahoo! Games. >http://games.yahoo.com/games/front _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
