I dropped a critical qualification below:
Compare that with a sharp American highschool graduate" TRAINED as
an ELECTRICIAN, or a PIEFITTER or a CARPENTER who will get --------
There is nothing wrong with an engineer becoming a 'bania'. There is
no moral, social or cultural prohibition against that. Nor is it a
sin of any kind for a company to hire top engineering graduates to
man call centers. After all, even those with engineering training
need to make a living.
The issue is with PUBLIC funding of engineering training, which of
necessity, is far more expensive than some of the other disciplines
of learning. If all that expenditure at the IITs turn out
stockbrokers for
US investment companies, somebody is losing out huge. Guess WHO!
Indian engineers, by and large cannot fix a leaky plumbing pipe,
repair an electric motor, build or even design a bamboo bridge or
are trained to design a better mousetrap. India needs far more people
trained for these tasks than turn out engineers to man call centers.
But these jobs, trades will not attract the able, because of :
*** Indian social stigma . You are going to be a plumber?
Horror of horrors. Oh, his son
is JUST an electrician. What a shame. That is all he became
with a first division at HS
and two letters!
*** Refusal to compensate adequately for such services. An
engineer, by social status
( not by skill now) will always be paid a far higher
compensation than an electrician or
a mechanic.
So there is NO incentive for the able to enter a field that not only
serves ones's economic needs, but also helps nation building. They
best of the lot therefore will automatically enter the legendary
Indian 'babudom', producing little, never having a chance to
utilizing their creative abilities or productivity. But at least
their economic well-being will be guaranteed.
Compare that with a sharp American highschool graduate who will get
far higher starting salary than a graduate engineer or even one with
a post graduate degree. And his status in society would not be any
less than that of the engineer next door. He will be coaching the
kids' soccer team, will run for elective office, serve as a board
member of the local hospital foundation and be a respected elder of
the local church. And he keeps industry running smoothly.
So the problem is PUBLIC POLICY! Governmental policy. And
social/cultural attitudes.
At 10:05 PM -0700 7/30/07, umesh sharma wrote:
Mridul-da,
Hmmm I can see where the anti-entrepreneurship attitude is leading
to. Perhaps you have heard that engineers are also becoming CEOs
--IITians have become phonemal investmant bankers -helped by the
fact that not only they are good number crunchers but alo they
understand engineering companies better . You might have heard of
one Rajat Gupta who was an IITian , Harvard MBA and lead McKinsey -a
company which is into "bania" like activities.
Umesh
Mridul Bhuyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Dilip Da,
My regards to you. Yes, I live in Gurgaon, in India.
In private sector, all the big names like Reliance, AREVA, ABB,
SIEMENS, Crompton Greaves... etc are employing engineers but not
because they need them all, but due to the fact thay are available
at a cheaper price. The call centres are also hiring engineers
because they are available at the same price tag as that of an
BA/BSc/B.Com. Being in Gurgaon, I have come across about 10/12
engineers from Assam (from our kharkhoowa engineering colleges), who
are working in the call centres such as American Express, citibank
etc. In call centres of Wipro, IBM, DELL... finding engineers is
understandable, however, I doubt what type of specialist jobs they
are doing, which can't be handled by a software programmer.
Recently, I met one first class mechanical engineer from AEC (that
too with very high scores), working in American Express, doing
customer service. Let's talk about our great 'Bania' Company
Reliance Energy (Engaged in distribution of power in portion of
Delhi). They would've employed the cheapest available non-technical
manpower, had it not been for the high voltage circuit breakers,
transformers, they have to handle. But they are now recruiting
engineers only for almost all category of jobs except for finance,
because the supply is abundant. You can get a fresh engineer for
Rs.3.0 lakhs per annum, but a MBA costs almost twice that amount.
They transform the Engineer to an excellent manager with their bania
expertise.:). So, tell me how creativity comes in to the picture. As
pointed out by Uttam, Private sector is all about acquiring max.
ouput with minimum cost. Hope, the picture is clearer now.
Regards
Mridul
Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mridul,
How does it shake out if you draw a line between the public and
private sectors? If the private sector also is employing engineers
just for the sake of providing employment or because there is a
position open for an engineering degree holder, then there is a big
problem.
I don't know whether you live in India or not. I'd like to hear how
it is in the Indian private sector.
Dilip Deka
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 10:04 PM -0700 7/29/07, Mridul Bhuyan wrote:
As far as engineers employed in India, I am not sure if being
creative or not makes any difference. Regarding most of the
engineering jobs in India, except in a few cases, I am not sure, if
Engineers are required at all :)
Mridul Bhuyan
**** You are sooo right Mridul!
What our NRI friends can't quite deal with is the realities of
India. They need to keep up those appearances, NOT because they do
not know, but it is from their own personal insecurities about who
or what they identify with.
c-da
Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Umesh,
Not every engineer needs to be creative. However every engineer
should be good in math, just to survive in the field. The design
engineers need to know what is behind the softwares they use now a
days to solve engineering problems.
There are functions in engineering where a person can contribute
without being creative in the real sense of the word. I have spent
30+ years in the field, including management of engineers, I should
know something about engineers by now.
A request to engineers in India - please speak up.
Dilipda
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
C-da,
But the article was about doing intensive coursework in math at
high school levele - not at an engineering college.
***But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of
itself, does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One
can do well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just
as engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering
also requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools
rarely help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability
or have the aptitude to develop it
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
At 1:33 PM -0700 7/27/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
Netters with interest in science will find this article
interesting. Math is used in all sciences, so obviously good
fundamental knowledge in math helps students in all branches of
science. A good grasp of math in high school helps engineering
students as well, across the board.
*** And that is exactly why it is so essential to have a sound
primary education where math fundamentals take root or die. If you
look at the percentage of students in Assam who have a decent
knowledge of math fundamentals, you will know why so few excel in
science, technology etc.
But there is more to it: Ability to do good math, by and of itself,
does not guarantee success as an engineer or scientist. One can do
well in the academic exams, can even get good jobs, not just as
engineers, but in a lot of other fields, but real engineering also
requires creativity -- something Indian engineering schools rarely
help develop, while not everyone is endowed with an ability or have
the aptitude to develop it .
Dilip
==================================================================
umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/home/news_and_events/releases/science_07262007.html
Umesh Sharma
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