Hi,
Today I was surprised and a little pleased to recieve an invitataion to become a member of the internet group fo the famous (or infamous??) All India Christian Council - whose founder I find is Mr John Dayal - aname I often come across as the leader of the agitators against casteism and oppressionand how Dalits and Christians are blood brothers - and why Hindus of other castes and Dalits are not -- a member dares that is any socalled upper caste Hindu would wash the feet of Dalits -as Bishop M A Thomas of Kota , Rajasthhan had done at a recent ceremony before he converted them to Christainity - to be precise he mentioned Hindu religious leaders -- but perhaps an ordinary Hindu like myself annd my father have been touching the feet of socalled Dalits --for years - at the religious ceremonies --- where everyone regardless of age is considered a sage - by the fact that he chose to attend such function rather than spend his time in material pursuits. -everyone touches everyone's feet -- upon an average at each religious ceremony -- held nearly every month -- I only go once in a while --- u get to touch the feet of atleast 30-40 socalled Dalits - which include the saints and the teengers and youth and the middle aged householders -- of course for propriety reasons we do not touch the feet of the womenfolk present.
Nonetheless -- I am glad to be able to have a dialogue with the members of AICC (All India Christian Council) -- I was reading Lajja last week -- a muslim lady writer's tale of the agonies faced by Hindus in Muslim majority Bangladesh -- Post Babri Masjid demolition .
The rhetoric in the book seems to reverberate -- when I read or hear some Hindu leaders on TV or in other media.
Having worked in the media -- I realise that themedia too is bound by the sensibilities of its viewers - so generally evades certain issues though importtant - may hurt the majority of the readers sentiments .
I present Mr John Dayal' interview -- about some problems faced by the Christians -- which if true -- seems to mirror those faced by Hindus in Bangladesh.<
To make the picture complete - I would like to point out that in Christian majority areas of India --Nagaland, Tripura and most of North East India -- the plight of minority Hindus is not much better.
Umesh
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/christiancouncil/message/15
Interview with John Dayal
July 19 2000
(John Dayal, of the All-India Catholic Union talks to Kavita Krishnan from Liberation on the renewed spate of attacks on Christian community by saffron hoodlums in different parts of the country. John Dayal is also the National convenor of the United Christian Forum for Human Rights, and the Convenor and spokesperson of the All-India Christian Council.)
Q: In the past few years, we have seen an alarming and sharp rise in attacks on the Christian Community in India. How would you explain the timing of these attacks?
A: It�s basically since 1996 that we�ve started seeing an increase in attacks; they started rising really sharply in 1997; reaching a crescendo in 1998 winter. That was the winter which saw the demolition of almost three dozen churches in Gujarat�s Dangs district.. Earlier, in the summer of the same year, Gujarat had witnessed both anti-Christian and anti-Muslim violence across the length and breadth of the state. So the violence did peak towards December 1998 and 1999, when in Orissa, an Australian missionary, Graham Stuart Staines and his two sons Philip and Timoty, were burned alive by known members of the Bajrang Dal. That, we thought, was the summit of anti-Christian violence, but we were mistaken, because in summer again, in Orissa, Father Arul Doss, a Tamil priest was killed, and since then we�ve averaging at least 3 cases a month, of violence of any sort against our community in several states.
A new dimension was added to this violence in summer 2000, when there were series of bomb blasts in churches in Andhra, Karnataka and Goa. It now turns out that this, according to the Karnataka police, was the work of a sect which work son the fringes of both Islam and Hinduism and belongs really neither. This sect was disowned by Islamic groups as early as 1910, when its founder said he was an avatar of Lingayat godman and also abused the prophet of Islam and Jesus Christ, the founder of Christianity. So it is quite patent that this group is not an Islamic group, despite the fact that part of its name sounds Muslim. It is significant that now the central govt. and the BJP are parading the name, they choose not to take the full name, but only the Muslim-sounding part of the name (the rest of the name has to do with Basava). They also don�t want to point out that while several people arrested in the case are Muslim names, among others arrested are those with Hindu names.
And this is a point we have consistently tried to make: that we don�t view the violence as violence between communities or as violence of Hindus against Christians, but that of the Hinduvta sect, a politically affiliated and motivated group, with an ideology agenda against all minorities in general and the Christian minority in particular. Which is also the reason why we have always opposed the idea of a so-called dialogue between the Christian community and these groups. The point is that we cannot have a diologue with the BJP or the RSS or the VHP etc., because we do not hold them to be a representative of the broad Hindu masses, and anyway, at the level of both ethics and ideology, we do not see the need of buying a bilateral peace with the Hindutva Parivar, because it is not very Christian to buy peace for ourselves and leave this Parivar to continue to wage its war against the Muslims and other minority groups. We are however always eager for a larger dialogue with Muslims and Sikhs and Buddhists and Hindus, and ask the government: Is there democracy in this country, is there secularism in this country? And, what steps the govt., political parties and communities themselves need to take in order to weed out extremist groups like the Sangh Parivar, so that we all have the genuine freedom and democracy guaranteed to us by the Constitution of India?
Q: The Home Minister L K Advani has claimed that the ISI is responsible of these attacks. In the light of the BJP leaders� statements legitimizing the attacks (saying they are �provoked by conversions� and given the scale and scope of these attacks, what do you make of Advani�s claim?
A: Let me react to this in all its various components. Let�s first take Pakistan. We hold no brief for Pakistan. We have said again and again that the condition of Christians in Pakistan is terrible; they have no constitutional rights, women are being raped, villages upon villages have been razed to the ground, various anti blasphemy laws have been brought against Christians, and extremist groups have been as active there as here (by the way, this goes to prove that extremist groups in India and Pakistan have the same agenda, which is that they do not want democracy in their respective countries). We have campaigned against the human rights violations in Pakistan universally. I myself have led such demonstrations in India and I have been part of the international campaign for human rights in Pakistan.
Two questions rise: If the Pakistani ISI is so active in India what is the government of India doing? How is it allowing the writ of the Pakistani ISI to run in India? Any responsible citizen, specially a representative of the government of India, who claims that the writ of the ISI has a free run in India is actually casting aspersions on the ability of the Government of India to rule. No sane citizen of India can believe that the government is so helpless in the face of the ISI. That is point one.
We have categorized the violence into three areas: the bombings which are the most recent and most bizarre, and which do not fall into the old pattern, the other of coercion and violence which peaked with torture and death of Vijay Ekka in police custody in Mathura in UP. This murder has led to raping and pillaging of Churches all over noth India. And the third aspect is the unmitigated hate campaign coming out of the mouths of the top Sangh leaders. Is it Mr Advani�s point that the hate campaign is ISI-inspired? Is he willing to go on record to say that the sangh leadership is playing the game of the ISI by mouthing the hate campaign, which the ISI would like it to mouth? The whole plan, on the part of the government, is to make it appear that the violence against the Christians is sporadic and isolated that there is no pattern. Is this not an attempt to fool all the people all the time? I do not think that anyone politically or socially aware, can believe that there is any truth in Mr Advani�s claim. They are sure to recognize it for what it is: a diversionary tactic to take the focus away from the fact that it is the Sangh Parivar which is creating the hate campaign against the minorities in
General and Christians in particular. And in the atmosphere of hate that it creates, not only are its own activists taking on acts of violence but also, it creates an ambience where any lunatic fringe, any bizarre cult can try to fulfill its own agenda of wreaking violence, or of terrorizing the Christian community.
This is what we have been demanding of the Government of India: (a) if it is the ISI, please, why don�t you publish the white paper on ISI, so that we are also warned. We, like any other citizen, would like to help this country retain its sovereignty, defend its integrity and its boundaries. (b) Why don�t you investigate the pattern of violence in the North? Are you trying to say that the ISI is involved in the custodial death of Vijay Ekka? Or that the ISI is involved in the murder of Brother George? Are you trying to say that the ISI is involved in the raids on churches in Haryana and Uttar Pradesh? Who are you trying to fool? You are making a laughing stock of yourself in the international community. Please (and this is what we plead to the PM a well as the HM) stop the hate violence. Tell the RSS chief, to tell his underlings tell the VHP and the Bajrang Dal to shut up; and not to continue to indulge in falsehoods, stop trying to demonize the minorities with lies.
There is not a single argument, a single falsehood which we have not challenged, there is not a single charge for which they have been able to produce any evidence. They have accused the Christian community of receiving foreign funds. Unlike the BJP we do not receive the private funds from private NRIs in the US. We have said: publish all the funds that all people get from all sources. This list will show that any number of people get lots of funds. Even people like Swami Agnivesh get foreign funds for development purposes as we do. Only 4% of funds from European countries comes to the Christian community. A very. Very large chunk comes to godmen, to NGOs in Andhra and Kerala and other parts of the country. So this is a myth. The second myth propagated against the Christian community is about forcible conversions. I myself have served on three commissions of enquiry of the National Commission of Minorities in 1998. We asked the various state governments, on record, if there was any, (any, any!) case of forcible conversions. Not a single government could cite a single case. Conversion by fraud in this age and time with a 2.3 minority community is impossible with the VHP hiding behind every tree. And anyway if this were true, why are there still so many poor christians? If they were converted by fraud the minute the money was spent, they should have reconverted. This is not happening, and yet the lie gets repeated. I think it is time the PM told his people to stop these lies.Because if they do not stop they will be creating an enviornment in which violence is inevitableand not at all surprising.
Q: One seems to detect a certein defensiveness in trhe reaction of some church leadership (for instance of that of sister Nirmala of Missionaries of Charity)? Would you agree?
A: No, I strongly disagree with that impression. Sister Nirmala's statement has been taken out of context. The most significant part of her statement is being ignored - i.e., her statementthat she was born a hindu and chose to convert to christianity. She has said that she does not believe that the hindu organizations are behind the attack and i agree -- it is Hindutva organisations we consider genuinely guilty. I agree with the spirit of sister Nirmala's statement, which is that it does not matter who is responsible; whoever is responsible , stop them. However, it is a fact that there is a deliberate attempt on part of the national commission of minorities to divide the christian community by isolating seperate sects and taking their leaders to meet the PM or HM in order to get them to make statements saying they are very satisfied. The christian community and it's leadershipb are politically naive and the government is taking advantage of this.
Q: After the Staines Murder, and earlier on the question of reservations for Dalit Christians, we saw the christian community to come on to the streets in a big way. Do you feel mass protests of that order seem to be less visible today?
A: No, in fact I believe that a movement is happening; a movement in which the christian community is not alone, in which middle India, secular India has stood up against the attacks on democracy and the christian community. In the light of the fact that the govt. is refusing to act, in the light of the fact that an atmosphere of intimidation and hate is being systematically created , I believe that the response we are seeing on the part of Democratic people is significant. We wish this voice would be louder. We appeal to the hundreds of thousands of alumni from christian institutions to speak out. There is a need for this movement to get stronger and we believe that this will happen, that mainstream India will firmly reject and defeat marginal, criminal groups like the RSS, VHP etc.
Q: Do you think the Sangh is being able to lumpenise local people and draw them into the net of their hate campaign? How should this process be countered?
A: I believe that the Sangh Parivar is itself a lumpen organisation. There is a natural nexus between elements of the sangh parivar, the criminal underworld and lumpen elements.
Q: BJP leader Govindacharya has said recently that those being attacked are not really missionaries, since their community work is not selfless, it is done for gain, motivated by the intention to convert. Would you say that there is a trend of such formulations by the BJP, which are a Barely veiled defence of the attacks?
A: We make no secret of the fact that we are motivated. Our motive is to serve the poor. We are very happy to feel that we work for the poor and the deprived. We also assert the fact that we prpogate our faith, an act which we are called to do by our belief, and which is also our right as guaranteed by our constitution. Secondly we should note that most of the violence is directed at those in the social sector, rather than those who evangelize. Take the rape of nuns in Jhabua for instance. Anyone who knows the first thing about Christianity knows that the nuns do not have the powers to baptize. Why then are they being attacked? The likes of Gurumoorthy and Govindacharya should stop providing the theoretical text and intellectual script for these attacks by tyhe sangh which consists of crooks lumpens and rapists.
Q: Do you see responses against the attacks forthcoming from the political establishments and leading opposition parties like the congress and how would you assess their attitude?
A: The political response to the anti-Christian violence is no way less or more than the response to the anti-Muslim violence or the anti-Sikh violence. Like other sectarian violence against other minorities, anti-Christian violence too has exposed the cleavages, the strengths and the weaknesses of the Indian political system and its inability to really unite to defend constitutional rights. We are extremely grateful and thankful for the support we have got from the Left in general and from secular society and we�re deeply pained that the established political parties have not been able to render us the sort of support in Parliament and elsewhere, which would have coerced the Sangh Parivar into silence, which would have pressured the govt. to act more vehemently. We are disturbed that Dalit parties, for instance, have not come to our support as they should have. Here is a place where violence is self-evident; why should I have to lobby with political parties? I have also personally had disturbing experiences with the communal fringe of some of the mainstream, so-called secular parties, the large parties, non-left parties, which are afraid that if they take too strong a position on minority issues, they may alienate what they think is the Hindu part of their constituency. And I think that this is politically very, very dangerous. Because this violence, as I continue to say, is not the violence of the Hindu community against the Christians. It is the violence of an ideological band Which must be fought ideologically and political parties of the national mainstream are the best equipped to take on the political challenge and I call on them not to abdicate their responsibility.
Q: What kind of shape would you visualize for the movement against anti-Christian violence now?
A: If I think about my own emergency as an activist in the movement for Christian human rights, I think it�s important to realize that this didn�t happen overnight. We were in the human rights movement in general right from my student days in the mid-60�s and certainly in the early 70�s and then, when Christians came under attack, it was natural for me, belonging to the community that I do, to take up some leadership role. We were part of the struggle against emergency. We were part of whatever small human rights movement existed pre Babri Masjid challenging communal violence in Moradabad and Bhiwandi and elsewhere. We were part of the movement, though not in leadership roles, against the environmental violence of the Bhopal gas tragedy. We were involved in mobilizing conscience against the anti-Sikh riots, where the lumpen elements of the Congress as well as the Sangh Parivar were together involved. It is a travesty of facts to identify only the Congress, and I think we�re going to pay a heavy price for having let off the sangh on that. So, I think you can�t have compartmentalized human rights movements. When talking about the unnecessary �dialogue� between Christians and Hindutva groups, I pointed out that we are not seeking bilateral peace. I would be both to have a human rights movement speaking only for Christians� rights and keep quite if Muslims or Dalits are being victimized in Punjab or in U.P. or in Bihar or in M.P. We need a totally holistic human rights movement which sees India�s crises as ideological, which sees them as developmental crises, which understands the reasons why Dalits continue to be killed in Bihar, which understands why women are traumatized, which understands why the BJP and other parties so desperately want the atom bomb. We want a movement which cankl understand the pain of the Nort-East, and also the alienation of Kashmir. I think that is the sort of thing on which all of us need to work together. Well, if a movement like that gains strenght, then secular society, middle India itself gets identified with it and no fringe element like the Sangh Parivar can wage an independent war against chosen targets.
With Yahoo! Mail you can get a bigger mailbox -- choose a size that fits your needs
