Jugal-da,
U are so far from Assam, how can you speak from all Assamese?
Umesh
---------------------------------------------
Then, we can all be happy
J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I believe my knowledge of the composition of India is as good as yours.
However, we interpret things differently. I say Bengalis, Biharis,
Punjabis, etc., who cherish being a part of India remain so. However,
those who are not enthralled at being a part of India, give them
"mukti" or liberation. Then, we can all be happy!
Jugal
On Sunday, December 12, 2004, at 10:31 AM, umesh sharma wrote:
> Jugal-da,
>
> I have always felt that technological wizards should take a serious
> course in history and sociology before they take up discussions -as
> experts on geo-politics.
>
> I recommend you do that. You do NOT realise at all that India is a
> conglomerate of various ethnic groups - Bengalis, Biharis, Malyalis,
> Punjabis, Gujratis -each with their own language, tradition! s and
> culture.
>
> Please brush up your knowledge before you speak so.
>
> What about mighty USA's inability to stem flow of illegal immigrants
> from Mexico - total 7 million here in USA -- on a border free from
> jungles -unlike Indo-Bangla one.
>
> Umesh
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> ----------------------
> Jugal-da wrote:
>
> It's a clash of nations--India vs. Assam Nation,
> India vs. Manipur Nation, India vs. Kashmir Nation, etc. Being
> militarily strong India has won so far.
>
> J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>
> Umesh,
>
> No state in America is demanding to get away. If it did, there would be
> a problem that will need to be addressed. For example, no one in New
> York is making claims that the USA is un! dermining their identity or
> working actively working toward destroying the New York identity and
> culture and hence seeking independence or sovereignty. If ten out of 50
> states of the USA did, there would be a problem that would need
> solving.
>
> Many in Assam and the Northeast and Kashmir have been clamoring for
> sovereignty, independence, autonomy and the like precisely because of
> an historical sense of independence, national pride and lately because
> of fears of loss of identity being inundated with enormous outside
> influences in terms of change of demographics, stealing of resources,
> undue and all-encompassing outside cultural and other forces. Tens,
> possibly hundreds of thousands of people have died, billions of rupees
> have been spent to address the issues in ways that have not yielded
> solution. The demands for autonomy, sovereignty or independence have
> survived for ! 50-60 or more years. So, it's a real problem unlike that
> we find in the USA. It's a clash of nations--India vs. Assam Nation,
> India vs. Manipur Nation, India vs. Kashmir Nation, etc. Being
> militarily strong India has won so far. But, continued military
> solution is counter-productive for everyone. So, the problem needs to
> be addressed afresh, in an out-of-the box kind of manner, in
> uncoventional ways examining why past law-and-order, army-based
> solutions have failed again and again. If the Assam Nation or Manipur
> Nation or Kashmir Nation was coerced or duped or just made a part of
> modern India without consultation, or even they willed before for
> inclusion but now they have been seeking re-examination of the
> status-quo for 30-40-50 years, there is merit to such demands and they
> shouldn't be treated as some rustics or ignorants or children or some
> people who don't know what's best fo! r them. The point is India has not
> succeeded in making many within its current borders part and parcel of
> itself despite having them within its borders for 50+ years. So, I
> don't see a problem in analyzing the current situation and seeing
> things need to be corrected.
>
> Jugal Kalita
>
> On Friday, December 10, 2004, at 04:46 PM, umesh sharma wrote:
>
> > Jugal-da,
> >
> > I beg to differ from you. You speak as if Indian nation is composed
> of
> > one race and one language - I may remind you that India is NOT USA
> -in
> > that sense.
> >
> > Each state has its own grouse, since each is different. Even "rich"
> > Punjab had its grouse -and the insurgents raised their head.
> Rajasthan
> > is thirsting for water and Punjab doesn't want to give any.
> >
> > In USA too so many states ! have their grouses. I'm told Alabama still
> > flies the Confederate flag etc
> >
> > Infact each village and each house and each family has its grouses.
> In
> > the family each member has grouses.
> >
> > Does it mean that we all cut away from each other?
> >
> > Umesh
> >
> > J Kalita wrote:
> >
> > So Rajiv, before you blame the ULFA and the demand for sovereignty
> for
> > all ills, reflect and
> > see what Indian rule to Assam has wrought. It has brought the Assam
> > Nation to almost decimation. Part of that is
> > the fault of those who constitute the Assam Nation, but I believe
> most
> > of the reasons for the decimation of the
> > Assam Nation identity lies with actions (such as division of Assam,
> > encouraging insurgency when it suits
> > its purp! ose, making Assam youth kill each other by creating SULFA and
> > arming them, not stopping immigration from Bangladesh, encouraging
> > immigration from India, steeping Assam in the corruption mode
> imitating
> > oBihar and other Indian states, use of a repressive Hindi-speaking
> > Army, complete cultural domination by Hindi media/entertainment
> leading
> > to a lack of respect for and opportunities in the native languages,
> and
> > a complete lack of concern for the survival of identity of the
> > constituents of the Assam Nation, etc.) of the supremely powerful
> > Indian Government compared to the current powers of the Assam Nation.
> > The Indian Government simply doesn't care and actually would like to
> > accelerate the destruction of the Assam identity so that Indian
> > identity can flourish. I am completely opposed to this goal of the
> >! Indian Nation and that is why I ask for sovereignty of the Assam
> > Nation. Let the Indian Nation show goodwill, then I will reciprocate.
> > If you are a mouthpiece of the Indian Nation, tell me what it has
> done
> > and will do for the benefit of the Assam Nation!
> >
> > Please be balanced on your views regarding sovereignty of the Assam
> > Nation. It is necessary for our survival. If you don't feel that you
> > are an interested party in the survival, growth and continued
> > flourishing of the Assam Nation, you don't understand the problem and
> > you are not qualified to talk on behalf of the Assam Nation.
> >
> > Jugal Kalita
> > Colorado
> >
> > On Friday, December 10, 2004, at 01:02 AM, Rajib Das wrote:
> >
> > > Fair enough! There are enough rants against India
> > > happening anyway on this board.
>! ; > >
> > > But the questions I have asked in this post - about
> > > their idealogy, the definitiveness of their vision -
> > > are these pertinent or are these rants?
> > >
> > > I am not a fan of the Indian bureacracy. In the years
> > > since the first promises of revolutions in our region,
> > > however, much has changed. People in other regions
> > > somehow have seized the moment and moved forward -
> > > inspite of what some may call a debilitating system.
> > > We have remained mired in old shibboleths. Our local
> > > leadership within the Indian system and without (in
> > > equal measure) is devoid of any vision. And yet, there
> > > is never much serious discussion on it.
> > >
> > > Almost as if this "sovereignity" thing is a sacred god
> > > in itself. Or for the rest of u! s a false god!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- J Kalita wrote:
> > >
> > >> Rajib,
> > >>
> > >> Why do you keep on ranting against the ULFA only?
> > >> You should rant
> > >> against the Indian Army who kill and torture
> > >> innocents in large numbers
> > >> and Indian bureaucrats (the establishment) who are
> > >> mostly all corrupt
> > >> to the bone in the same breath to have any semblance
> > >> of reasonableness
> > >> in your writings.
> > >>
> > >> Jugal
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thursday, December 9, 2004, at 06:36 PM, Rajib
> > >> Das wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>> And ! ULFA was NOT 'discredited' when it emerged.
> > >> Even
> > >>>> now it is
> > >>>> discredited only in certain circles. ULFA could
> > >> not
> > >>>
> > >>> "Certain circles" indeed! Innocent civilians
> > >> bombed
> > >>> out and the level of extortion and the money
> > >> hoarded
> > >>> in Bangladesh are somewhat universal yardsticks
> > >> for
> > >>> defining discredited or not.
> > >>>
> > >>> In any case we are talking about the future and
> > >> the
> > >>> system for it. Not about what ULFA was 20 years
> > >> back.
> > >>> About what it is today and what it is capable of
> > >>> tommorow versus what the current system is today
> > >> and
> > >>> what it is capable of tomorrow.
> > >>>
> > >>> So what is the verdict on the following about ULFA
> > >> AS
> > >>> THINGS STAND TODAY:
> > >>> a. Its capability to define the "sovereign" nation
> > >> it
> > >>> is fighting for
> > >>> b. Its capability or defined vision in terms of
> > >> how it
> > >>> will govern the sovereign nation in a way that is
> > >>> fundamentally better than what it is today?
> > >>> c. Its defined idealogy and the committment of its
> > >>> cadre to its idealogy?.
> > >>> d. Its capability to wage war "successfully"
> > >>> e. And to cut it short, its record of respecting
> > >>> people's opinion?
> > >>>
> > >! ;>> Then there is the small point about whether it
> > >> does
> > >>> indeed represent the sovereign nation it has
> > >> defined
> > >>> for itself?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> __________________________________
> > >>> Do you Yahoo!?
> > >>> The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do?
> > >>> http://my.yahoo.com
> > >>> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
> > > http://my.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
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