O'Rajen:
>From your above
response, it would seem as if the framers of the Union did not do a
good job. If >that is true, how do you expect that the
Indians will do a better job this time.
Tumi bor taan taan kotha xudhi diya dei ( you ask very hard
questions). But I am not going to give you the answer every time. You
will have to find the answer all by yourself. Aru bhul uttor dile,
xudhho uttortw silotot exobaar likhibo lagibo. Paba mojatw
tetiya ( and if you give the wrong answer you will have to write the
correct one a hundred times on your slate--then you will have fun). It
looks like you just woke up or something. Next time have a cup of
strong tea before you start responding with stuff like above.
>For the Indians to do a
better job this time, first they will have to understand what they
have >done wrong in the first place.
*** But I have to give you credit when credit is due: You do come
up with incisive observations like the above. I really did not
know this. I bet no other netter did either. Forgive me for writing
inscrutable things like "---but have you heard of any serious
move by any Indian administration to even undertake a thorough study
of what might be wrong, what might need repairs, or what might need
replacement?"
>, if Indians are not
concerned about the problem, how in the world you expect the Indians
to fix >the problem?
***FIRST, You or I may not be able to answer accurately if
Indians are aware of the problem or not. But what about the smart NRI
like you and other members of POOR? Are you concerned?
BTW, Ram complained about POOR. So I rethought the matter, and
make the amended
suggestion that perhaps it would be more appropriate to call it
POOCOR ( Probaxi Oxomiyas Opposed Conditionally to Reforms).
>All Indians can do,
like you, simply complain, get angry, go for insurgency and
>others.
*** I have to correct you here: I am not an Indian. A chief is
what I think of myself as. Yes I was a native of the India more than
half my life ago. My nationality today is American. And my ethnicity
is Assamese.
Having clarified that,I am curious if the above is a considered,
well-researched ( or even ill-researched), anthropological assessment
of the Indian people or a knee-jerk, sweeping labelling of an entire
people based on skimpy or non-existent evidence; designed to sound
like a profound observation?
>Thus I would say
insurgency happened not because the system is faulty (which may >be
true to some extent)---
*** Well, another deep observations here, which I am not exactly
sure what to think of, mainly because you can't seem to be able to
make up your mind about. Is it or is it not? And if it is only
partially, what are other parts?
> but
primarily because Indians donot know how to react to it
>and how to fix it.
*** Finally , after shooting all over the place ,you hit
the target. bulls-eye! Now that you pinpointed the problem, do you
have any suggestions on what ought to be done differently by them
Injuns? Or would I have to tell you again, so that you can re-pharse
and mutilate it and ask me if that is what I said?
> Nobody can fix the
problem from outside.
*** Did someone recommend that as a solution? Or are you making a
false proposition so that you can prove to the world how smart you are
by demolishing it?
> Because it is not like
something that you hire experts management from outside to fix the
>problem.
*** Not that anyone was advocating that to my knowledge, but just
out of curiosity, WHY cannot outside 'experts' help identify the
problem/s and recommend remedial measures? Is there some
prohibition against it?
>Even to hire outside
experts, Indians must realize that something is wrong to start with
and >Indians will have to agree democratically to hire outside
experts.
*** That is why smart NRIs like you can point it out to help out
the clueless desis. Wasn't that what you were repeatedly exhorting
Assam Netters to join in in sometime back, but were disgusted by
un-co-operative and apathetic clods like yours truly?
Also WHY do desis have to agree 'democratically' to hire outside
( or insider) experts to sort out the problems? Didn't you read how
the past admin. and the current President are attempting to shove
riverlinking down India's throat as a panacea to all its water
problems, in-spite of widespread opposition from the professionals and
laymen alike? Are you suggesting NDA was and the current president is
acting very undemocratically?
>Even in your own case,
so far you have failed to convince the netters. So all you can do
>complain more, nothing else.
*** You maybe right, but what does this have to do with all the
other stuff you talked about above? How are they connected? And what
conclusion do you draw from it?
Now about my failure to convince:
If you read carefully, you will see that you are confirming what I said above. People's repersenetive failed to react to the complainants. The question is why? It is either because they did not know how to react or they simply ignored the complainants. In both cases it shows a failure of leadership of the representative. Even if the system is faulty we need a set of leaders who will be able to identify the problem and will come out with devices how to fix it. That is what we lack today. That is why the only fix is to go back to the drawing board and create some leaders. There is no short cut however loudly one complains.
*** Is this your block-buster recommendation? That reform talk is
a bunch of crap, what India needs are 'leaders' and the
challenge is to create (design them and manufacture) them ?
Yes I do remember your advocating and recommending it. Original
thinking here without a doubt. I don't recall hearing or reading about
it in any other context, anywhere, ever. So once again I give you
credit on original thinking.
I hope Netters will duly recognize it as a solid contribution
from you.
My only question is about what process you recommend, blue-sky it
if you have to--unique problems require unique approaches to
solutions? Do you thin India has the ability to produce them
indigenously? Or will it have to hire something like a Bechtel or
Parsons or Kellogg to design it and import a leader-manufacturing
plant, hopefully with technology transfer agreements?
Will it be reasonable to conclude here, along with the above
recommendation, that this talk of reforms is a red-herring, merely a
whiner's ruse and a complainer's tantrums?
>We may consider the
faulty system to a patient. We have a set of doctors. To cure the
patent >from disease, the doctors must be able to identify the
disease. The patent may complain. But it >cannot cure. This
is where we fail.
*** Let me see if I understand this:
>This is where we
fail.
Who does?
Sri Faulty System, or the Docs, or the Kharkhowa Observers of
Assam Net?
Tell you what Rajen, I am just a jokaisukiya kharkhowa. This
allegorical, intellectual high-stuff is just too much for my little
whiny mind. Would you mind saying it simply? I could not make head or
tail of what you were implying here.
>The system may be
faulty, but the system at least does not block anybody from fixing or
>modifying the system. So far Indians have failed to modify the
system for reasons I have cited >above. Indians
failed.
*** I see! System Faulty. System does not prevent anyone from
curing it. Docs cannot diagnose it. Bezor naakot khor. So back to
square one:
By golly I think I got it!
I take back all my insinuations and whines and complaints Rajen.
I think you drilled the correct answers into me finally.
Regarding accountably, transparency, these are the life of the system, these cannot be installed by a set of rules and regulations which are already there in the system As you rightly pointed out, may be we have more rules and regulations. It is the people, the leaders and the public together, who will have to create this accountability and trasparency in the system. A failure of accountability or transparency in the system simply reflect that the Indian people have failed. The British system have better accountaibilty and trasparency without even a written Constitution. The britsh people are creating this accountabilty and trasparency into their system. The Indian people need to create this this into their system.
That is how I identify the problem.
*** That is a lucid and incisive summation of the problem that
leaves me speechless. And I shall not harangue you any further on it.
I get the message Rajen.
You take care. We shall meet again, hopefully on less complicated
grounds :-).
c
At 11:43 AM -0500 5/7/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
>.*** That is because the Indian system is not an exact replica of the British system. It was adapted to fit India's needs, by the framers of the Union, as best as they >could. .It was a TOOL they modified to fit their own circumstances and needs. The original version was a tool that the colonialists devised to RULE India ( incidentally >the colonial govts. were not EXACTLY the same as the sahebs had in their homeland, if you did not know) . Not exactly the best thing for a newly independent sovereign >nation. Unfortunately many of the parts of that system remain unchanged even today. The Sentinel editorial of the other day that Kamal referred us to talks about the >19th century police manual that India still uses. Many of the components just don't work, dysfunctional.
From your above response, it would seem as if the framers of the Union did not do a good job. If that is true, how do you expect that the Indians will do a better job this time. For the Indians to do a better job this time, first they will have to understand what they have done wrong in the first place. And nobody, including you, seem to know that. If Indians are not aware of the exact problem, and if Indians cannot identify the problem, if Indians are not concerned about the problem, how in the world you expect the Indians to fix the problem? All Indians can do, like you, simply complain, get angry, go for insurgency and others. Thus I would say insurgency happened not because the system is faulty (which may be true to some extent) but primarily because Indians donot know how to react to it and how to fix it. Nobody can fix the problem from outside. Because it is not like something that you hire experts management from outside to fix the problem. Even to hire outside experts, Indians must realize that something is wrong to start with and Indians will have to agree democratically to hire outside experts. Even in your own case, so far you have failed to convince the netters. So all you can do complain more, nothing else.
>*** You answered a vital part of your question yourself --- with accountability. Some other parts are: Transparency-- to enable the people to participate and keep >tab of what is going on. Yet another part is responsiveness, which is tied in with accountability.
>For example, Assam insurgency did not happen all of a sudden one fine morning at Rongpur with the announcement of ULFA's birth. The reasons for it were brewing for >years and years. The people's representatives were very much aware of it--but it was ignored. By the state reps., by the Central reps., with full understanding and >blessings of the real authorities.
>Here governmental unresponsiveness created the situation we are in now.
If you read carefully, you will see that you are confirming what I said above. People's repersenetive failed to react to the complainants. The question is why? It is either because they did not know how to react or they simply ignored the complainants. In both cases it shows a failure of leadership of the representative. Even if the system is faulty we need a set of leaders who will be able to identify the problem and will come out with devices how to fix it. That is what we lack today. That is why the only fix is to go back to the drawing board and create some leaders. There is no short cut however loudly one complains.
We may consider the faulty system to a patent. We have a set of doctors. To cure the patent from disease, the doctors must be able to identify the disease. The patent may complain. But it cannot cure. This is where we fail.
The system may be faulty, but the system at least does not block anybody from fixing or modifying the system. So far Indians have failed to modify the system for reasons I have cited above. Indians failed.
Regarding accountably, transparency, these are the life of the system, these cannot be installed by a set of rules and regulations which are already there in the system As you rightly pointed out, may be we have more rules and regulations. It is the people, the leaders and the public together, who will have to create this accountability and trasparency in the system. A failure of accountability or transparency in the system simply reflect that the Indian people have failed. The British system have better accountaibilty and trasparency without even a written Constitution. The britsh people are creating this accountabilty and trasparency into their system. The Indian people need to create this this into their system.
That is how I identify the problem.
Rajen
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