Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka- Karl Marx the Jew- Nazi's cause of hatred

umesh sharma Sat, 21 May 2005 15:43:02 -0700

Perhaps the point Rajen-da is making is similar to the trend Germans followed. I just saw a movie "The eye of the Vichy" http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00007AJEI/026-7481646-1418867

which shows an actual film about anti-Jew anti-Communist (Bolshevik) work by French govt - under German occupation in 1940-41.

Perhaps Hitler detested Jews becos Karl Marx was a Jew. Infact I came to know the KM was a Jew - was after reading some passages of Mein Kamph in the school library while preparing for GRE. He refered KM as "Karl Marx-The Jew."

Karl Marx was famous and politicaly dominant. Other Germans may have not liked it -and ofcourse they all detested the rise of Red Soviet Union in 1917, which later continuously put pressure on other European nations to become communist. They all ganged up against poor Jews, beause one of them (KM) had risen against them.

In the current case, the fear, which perhaps Rajen-da is trying to express is that it is possible that the hatred for the Islamic terrorists (brown skinned) should not become a hatred against all muslims or brown skinned Asians.

Umesh

Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Rajen:

I still don't see how GWB , or his beliefs, or his modus operandi, or his religious views has anything to do with what we have been debating.

But it is your choice to muddy the scene. I know people resort to such tactics when they are in trouble defending a point of assertion.

>We should be careful of the process we take to achieve something with all the good intentions. I >strongly believe in the process which is the essense of life..

Waxing philosophical again here Rajen :-)? It goes right over my head. More so, because it sounds contradictory. I also did not realize that 'process' is the essence of life. That is way too deep for me.

c

At 12:23 PM -0500 5/21/05, Rajen Barua wrote:

*** Listen Rajen, comparing me to GWB, would not make me feel bad about myself

I am not trying to compare you to GWB to show that you are bad. I donot consider GWB to be bad at all. But I consider him to be a 'fundamentalist' in his views with tunnel vision who cannot see anything outside his square of vision. (More on definition of a 'fundamentalist' later). No amount of arguments with ordinary 'garden variety' logic could reason with him. And to make his case, he twisted and mis interpreted the facts many times. As a result, I think America as a whole lost lot of creditability due to his narrow and twisted views on the world politics. He may have won the Iraq War but definitely lost the Creditability War in front of the world. History will be the judge if America had gained anything out of the whole thing. This is again not to say that personally he is a bad guy. I think he is a very religious and God fearing person. But that does not mean much! to me or to the world at large. I strongly believe in the quotation I read somewhere, "The path to Hell is paved with stones of good intentions". We should be careful of the process we take to achieve something with all the good intentions. I strongly believe in the process which is the essense of life.

Rajen

----- Original Message -----

From: Chan Mahanta

To: Rajen Barua ; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu

Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 10:55 AM

Subject: Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka

At 10:29 AM -0500 5/21/05, Rajen Barua wrote:

Chandan:

Here I think we will have to agree to disagree.

We are trying to show that journalism should be neutral. And that is our position.

*** So would be mine. No need to paint me as the bad guy here. I don't make the ethics of journalism nor do I enforce them.

Now you are trying to take the position of George Bush and try to argue, that they never are and therefore there is nothing wrong in some journalist like Tehelka not being neutral because we cannot show any journalists to be neutral.

*** Listen Rajen, comparing me to GWB, would not make me feel bad about myself , nor would it prove any point you are attempting to make.

I reject this whole idea about being scrupulously neutral on an issue. It is neither practical, nor is it possible.

In journalism, like any in other field, to excel, to do well, an individual must have passion. It is purely academical to suggest that a reporter would have passion on both or all sides to a story to excel on reporting it. It is pure BS and those who advocate it are disingenuous or not very bright or both.

In Tehelkas case, if the Tehelka reporter did not have a passion about secularism in public life, or had equal measure of passions for Hinduttva as well as secular government, or in other words were to be confused and disoriented, the story would not be worth the ink it is printed with. As simple as that.

To expect that in todays environment of journalism and free flow of information, personal passions and beliefs SHOULD not or MUST NOT color the reporting is totally unrealistic and based on romantic notions that are nowhere in the realm of reality. The fact is it WILL, the only difference is in the degree of it.

>Because, for sake of argument, I can say that NPR is such a neutral Radio journalism >which many of us believe show the whole picture without taking any particular side

This is one of the most absurd examples I can imagine. NPR, by no stretch of the imagination is a 'neutral' , take no-stand, everything is right, nobody is wrong, or we could not tell what is right or what is wrong--you decide, kind of a brain dead org.

That is why I say, it is better that you live in the world where you believe that all journalis are human and therefore they cannot be neutral and therfore there is nothing for Tehelka to take side.

I do. And the world is better for those who are not afraid to take a stand on what they believe is right. And those who pretend that they live in a neutral, brain dead world of greys and are unable to see the blacks and whites are either pathological liars or are brain dead, or both.

>And we live in the world with the statement of Ganseh Bora that journalists should be >neutral.

That is your choice Rajen.

c

This is what we call twisted logic of George Bush.

Against such twisted logic, simple folks like us with our ordiniary 'garden variety' logic simply cannot win.

Because, for sake of argument, I can say that NPR is such a neutral Radio journalism which many of us believe show the whole picture without taking any particular sides.

But against my argument, probably you will come up with your twisted exapample, like the Right Wing is trying to do now, how in such and such case on such and such date and time, NPR made certain statement which shows that they cannot be called aboslutely 'neutral' etc etc blah blah blah.

That is why I say, it is better that you live in the world where you believe that all journalis are human and therefore they cannot be neutral and therfore there is nothing for Tehelka to take side.

And we live in the world with the statement of Ganseh Bora that journalists should be neutral.

Thank you bye bye.

Case closed.

No more noise please.

Rajen

----- Original Message -----

From: Chan Mahanta

To: Barua25 ; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu

Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 9:29 AM

Subject: Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka

At 2:50 AM -0500 5/21/05, Barua25 wrote:

> >But the
> >journalism and journalist should be neutral and we
> >count on them.
>
> *** Can you cite a few examples of that :-)?

I think this is a wrong response to a statement with word "should'. Why it is so difficult to understand the simple statement. 'Should be beutral' here simply means without taking any political side or being biased to any other agenda.

*** You are right Rajen. As is Ganesh. The press should be neutral and fair and even handed.

Just like people should be too.

And govt. officials should be honest, hardworking, responsible, truthful, responsive, not indulge in corrupt behavior, so on and so forth.

*** My question however, to both Ganesh, and you, is : ARE THEY? Is the press what it should be in a perfect world?

Or do you expect only TEHELKA to adhere to such standards, not be biased ?

That is my question.

Imagine your own example, unless you are trying to suggest that all journalists are biased to one side or the other in which case we should agree to dis agree.

*** Heck, if the journalists are scrupulously bias-free, show the examples . That is all I asked to see.

Yes, I do argue that all journalists would have some bias or other. All human beings would have that. It would vary only on degrees. To be a perfectly unbiased journalist is an oxymoron is how I see it.

But you don't have to accept my view. PROVE that I am WRONG by citing examples.

In my opinion, a journalist's duty should be to act as a camera to present the news as it is and to give a factual perspective so that people can understand the news in broader perspective.

*** You are perfectly entitled to YOUR opinions as to the ethics of journalism. Just show who abides by or maintains the standards you demand.

c

Rajen

----- Original Message -----

From: "Chan Mahanta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Ganesh C Bora" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu>

Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 1:37 PM

Subject: Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka

> At 10:22 AM -0700 5/19/05, Ganesh C Bora wrote:
> >C'da,
> >My point was that all politician and political parties
> >have their ideologies (or biased ness).
>
>
> *** I agree.
>
>
> >But the the
> >journalism and journalist should be neutral and we
> >count on them.
>
> *** Can you cite a few examples of that :-)?
>
>
>
> >I agree with your point that Tehelka
> >did a good work in exposing the defense deals where
> >BJP president and NDA coordinator George Fernandes was
> >involved for which Tarun Tejpal was penalized by the
> >then govt.
>
> *** The penalizing was arbitrary, and politically motivated. The law
> of the land was misused to hold Tejpal in prison, with political
> might, and not with due process of justice expected of a functioning
> democratic state.
>
>
> >
> >Does this case give freeway to Tehelka to be biased?
>
>
> *** Unfortunately Ganesh, freedom of the press does allow such
> things. And they are not unique in this regard. Everybody else is
> like that too. That is why asked you for a few examples of the
> scrupulously objective or neutral voices of the media that you or I
> might like to see.
>
> The only recourse to it is that others are just free to rebut or
> refute what Tehelka alleges or insinuates. But we also know that it
> is easier said than done. Take for example a letter to the editor. I
> don't know how many times you have tried that--I mean write letters
> to the editor and get published. But I certainly had no luck, except
> once. Why? Because I write about stuff that causes discomfiture to
> that particular paper's editorial bent, its biases. Why would it give> publicity to that?
>
>
> >Or write a biased article against whom they do not
> >like?
>
> *** It is not that simple however. Because if they write pure
> fabrication, sooner or later it will get exposed. When that happens,

> they will lose credibility and there will be no buyer of what they

> sell. I subscribed to Tehelka recently. If I had a perception that
> they make up sensational stories without any substance, I would not
> have spent the money, even if its political leanings might fit my own.
>
>
> >The author in the article did not present any
> >investigation findings, only re-affirming that the
> >Maharani belongs to RSS! Is that news!
>
>
> *** If it were not news or otherwise noticeable, would you be upset?
>
> Tehelka wrote about some of the policies the Maharani is pursuing.
> They are very corrosive for Indian society. But these are in the
> public record. Tehelka had the courage and the will to write about
> them. However there are just as many outlets who would NOT write
> about them.
>
> In that Tehelka IS indeed providing a service to the people as a
> watchdog of democracy, which is! what a free-press is.
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Ganesh
> >
> >
> >--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Ganesh:
> >>
> >> You may be very right about the fact that the
> >> personal picture of the Maharani
> >> painted by Tehelka is biased and/or one sided.
> >> Certainly the latter, because
> >> no alternative view was presented.
> >>
> >> But, would that make Tehelka's picture unique?
> >>
> >> Would that also automatically make some of the
> >> retrograde policies that the
> >> Maharani has established or is pursuing either
> >> unbelievable or in fact wrong
> >> or misleading? Are those NOT in the public record,
> >> that anyone could distort
> >> them and get-away with?
> >>
> >> Finally, Tehelka is India's best known Investigative
> >> Journalism endeavor. Desi-
> >> demokrasy-bhoktos of Assam Net have been advocating
> >> more IJ, not less, as
> >> an antidote to its dysfunctionality. I don't know
> >> what your view is on that, but

> >> certainly Tehelka is contributing more than its fair
> >> share.If they are biased
> >> could their view not be challenged abd rebutted? If
> >> they are malicious, could
> >> its victims not sue in court? Surely George
> >> Fernandes and the BJP had Tarun
> >> Tejpal imprisioned for months on the expose' it
> >> aired on thye BJP president's
> >> bribery case and GF's involvement on questionable
> >> military purchases. They
> >> almost closed Tehelka down --with political muscle,
> > > not on legal grounds.
> >>
> >> So the BJP is not exactly thye helpless victim of an
> >> ideological enemy. Is it?
> >>
> >>
> >> c-da
> >>! ; >
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Ganesh C Bora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> > Date: 2005/05/19 Thu AM 10:05:33 EDT
> >> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> >> assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu
> >> > Subject: Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka
> >> >
> >> > C'da,
> >> > You know the relationship between Tehelka and BJP!
> >> > This article is too much onesided. She refers to
> >> Mani
> >> > Shankar Aiyer, who is typical congressman!
> >> (suspeneded,
> >> > joined opposition, returned to party like Pranab,
> >> > Arjun).
> >> >
> >> > On the other hand, she has been a BJP worker for
> >> long
> >> > time and being MP for 4 times (including a being
> >> > minister in the union) before she became the CM.
> >> > Definitely she would have tilt towards RSS/VHP
> >> because
> >> > of her background!
> >> >
> >> > Do you think she will sing Sonia bandana or sing
> >> to
> >> > the tune of communist (What this Tehelka report
> >> does).
> >> >
> >> > Ganesh
> >> >
> >> > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > SAFFRON CHAMPAGNE
> >> > > A pearls-and-chiffon socialite or a closet
> >> fanatic?
> >> > > Poornima Joshi discovers
> >> > > the real Vasundhara Raje
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Desert Queen: Vasundhara in Rajasthani costume
> >> > > Photo S. Khan
> >> > >
> >> > > For the Davis Cup tie on April 29, Vasundhara
> >> was to
> >> > > deliver the opening
> >> > > address. The match was to start at 9.30am. She

> >> > > sauntered in only at
> >> > > 10.45am. Even the world?s third richest man LN

> >> > > Mittal had to wait for half-
> >> > > an-hour to meet the CM
> >> > > >From the tip of a manicured toe to the
> >> disdainful
> >> > > toss of her lustrous mane,
> >> > > everything about the Maharani of Dholpur aka
> >> > > Rajasthan Chief Minister
> >> > > Vasundhara Raje spells arrogance. She is
> >> > > out-of-bounds and above the
> >> > > mundane world of governance. Her officers
> >> tremble
> >> > > even as they get her to
> >> > > do the most basic of a chief minister?s tasks ?
> >> like
> >> > > clearing files. The only
> >> > > time the maharani switches her re! gal demeanour
> >> is
> >> > > when she is hobnobbing
> >> > > with astrologers and pandits, and temple-hopping
> >> in
> >> > > ethnic chic, with dollops
> >> > > of sindoor for the benefit of her doting praja.
> >> > >
> >> > > As most of her contemporaries trample their
> >> chances
> >> > > in the battle for the top
> >> > > job in the BJP ? Uma Bharti with her tantrums
> >> and
> >> > > Narendra Modi with his
> >> > > high-handedness ? Vasundhara?s popularity
> >> ratings
> >> > > continue to soar. Even
> >> > > the most vocal of the Sangh adversaries have
> >> only
> >>&n! bsp; > > nice things to say about
> >> > > her. ?Vasundhara Raje is not Uma Bharti,? wrote
> >> Mani
> >> > > Shankar Aiyar in his
> >> > > pre-ministerial days, obviously referring to
> >> Raje?s
> >> > > ?liberal? credentials as
> >> > > compared to the rabble-rousing sanyasin.
> >> > >
> >> > > Aiyar is right. Vasundhara is not Uma. The
> >> > > sindoor-wielding maharani is a far
> >> > > more circumspect and shrewd politician than poor
> >> Uma
> >> > > who hurts herself
> >> > > every time she opens her mouth. The two women,
> >> who
> >> > > fought the Assembly

> >> > > elections in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan in the
> >> > > same year, have charted
> >> > > out courses that are similar in ideological
> >> essence
> >> > > but quite different in
> >> > > presentation.
> >> > >
> >> > > So, while Uma prays with sundry sadhus in
> >> > > Amarkantak, Vasundhara has done
> >> > > what would keep RSS satraps happy for a long
> >> time.
> >> > > Take a look at the
> >> > > measures taken to keep the Sangh in good
> >> spirits:
> >> > >
> >> > > She has not appealed against the lower court
> >> order
> >> >! > on the Deorala Sati
> >> > > incident acquitting all the accused;
> >> > > The practice of Sati is being glorified. The
> >> state
> >> > > government recently
> >> > > announced the setting up of a township named
> >> ?Shri
> >> > > Rani Sati Nagar?. After
> >> > > protests, the government omitted ?Sati? from the
> >> > > name, letting it remain Shri
> >> > > Rani Nagar;
> >> > > The government is encouraging the Vanavasi
> >> Kalyan
> >> > > Ashram, an RSS offshoot,
> >> > > to open more schools in tribal areas. Even the
> >> > > Muslim students have to sport
> >> > > tilaks and recite shlokas in these schools;
&! gt; > > > > There has been a spate of communal incidents in
> >> the
> >> > > state, the latest
> >> > > erupting in Bhilwara town after the alleged
> >> killing
> >> > > of an RSS activist;
> >> > > In the areas where communal tension resulted in
> >> the
> >> > > police registering cases
> >> > > against VHP and Bajrang Dal activists,
> >> counter-firs
> >> > > have been filed against the
> >> > > victims, mostly Muslims. According to human
> >> rights
> >> > > groups, there are 150
> >> > > such counter-firs;
> >> > > She has lifted the ban on trishul diksha.
> >> > > In the areas neigh! bouring Gujarat, incidents of
> >> > > communal violence are on the
> >> > > rise. Local activists allege that the RSS,
> >> Bajrang
> >> > > Dal and VHP are inciting
> >> > > tribals to attack the Muslim population in these
> >>
> >=== message truncated ===
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

>
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Re: [Assam] From the Tehelka- Karl Marx the Jew- Nazi's cause of hatred

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