Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

Chan Mahanta Sat, 28 May 2005 10:52:39 -0700

Title: Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

Rajen:

At 11:23 AM -0500 5/28/05, Barua25 wrote:

>No, we won't have to go around in circles, if you give me a straight-forward answer.

We cannot. In other words, we will go in circle like we did before so many times..

Because to know what type of Autonomy we want, we will have to know exactly what ails Assam which you refused to discuss.

*** I am just an observer, just like you are. Therefore, whether I agree to discuss or not ought not to be a reason for you to NOT tell WHY you agree to autonomy for Assam, except with the powers of defence, currency and foreign policy being the center's responsibility , as you noted earlier:

I think everybody will voice for Autonomy for Assam. We also know your response to this.

You yourself told that you don't know what are Assam's problems. On this issue, even if we agree to discuss we found out that we will have to agree to disagree.

*** Is there an alternative? I mean, would you bite me if I don't agree with you, or vice-versa :-)?

So, even if we may agree for Autonomy, we will have to agree for different purpose or goal.

*** I don't have to agree with anything you propose. Or for that matter, as you have demonstrated you don't agree with anything with I propose either. But that is your right. I won't make your agreeing to agree with something I propose conditional to substantiate something I declare, like you did as for autonomy.

Therefore, we cannot go too deep on what type of Autonomy for fear of not agreeing with Autonomy at all.

*** I don't get it. Do you mean, that you may withdraw your earlier assertion, depending on what autonomy may mean, if it is something other than what you proposed earlier (including everything except defence, currency and foreign policy)?

>For instance, I don't now what do you mean by a separate constitution for Assam,. When Assam will have Autonomy it will have to have some guidelines or by-rules as part of Indian constitution

As long as these guidelines are not in conflict with Indian constitution of basic democracy and sovereignty for India, these should be all right.

*** That could be a reasonable proposal.

In my mind, Assam will be like a 'kor-tolia' rajyo under India. Assam will manage its own revenue but will have to pay GOI for the army and defense which will run into thousands of cores of rupees (say). etc. (BTW in 1826, this amount was about 3 lakhs rupees only as the British estimated. Purandar Singha, the last Ahom prince, was supposed to pay only 50,000 rupees for Upper Assam). There will also be clause that if Assam cannot pay the amount, Assam will loose its Autonomy etc. We will have to agree to all that.

*** If autonomy is conditional upon the ability to pay for services, what kind of a slave/master relationship are you suggesting? If an autonomous Assam cannot pay for services, then it will forfeit the services, not its autonomy. It is like a creditor having to go to jail if he cannot pay his debts.

It is not something you lease from its owner for payment, failing which it reverts back to the lessor, is it?

That is exactly the reason those of you who support autonomy, must have a clear idea about WHY autonomy. What is it for? What is the reason you support it for Assam?

Again you contradict yourself here when you say you want to have separate constitution for Assam. This indicates that you know something is wrong with Indian constitution.

*** Not only do I know there are a number of things that are wrong with the Indian constitution, but also such Indian nationalists like ABV, and myriads of other Indian luminaries and scholars do. That is exactly why ABV set up a blue-ribbon panel of experts right after the first NDA govt. to advise on a constitutional overhaul, seeking citizen input not only from Indians but also from NRIs. In fact I posted a note in Assam Net myself, informing people on

that encouraging participation.

Should I read from your comments that you don't believe anything is the matter with the Indian constitution and that it is perfect?

Also what is my contradictory statement here?

But when you tried to discuss, you already told that you don't know what exactly is wrong with Indian constitution and that you will have to hire experts for this.

*** Rajen let us be serious. Just because I can't tell you EXACTLY what are wrong with the Indian constitution, does not mean nothing is wrong, does it? Why do you look at me like a constitutional expert? Have I ever presented myself as such? And does it mean that if I am not an expert, I can't speak about what I do know?

This means that you want to hire experts to tell you what type of Autonomy will be good.

*** Not me. It is people like you. You are the ones who declare: I think everybody will voice for Autonomy for Assam.

You are the ones who won't speak of what autonomy might mean to you.

I never demand that you will have to present it as a complete or perfect document on the meaning of autonomy, ready to be voted on and ratified.

But you must have some concept. You could not be expressing support for it without having a clue as to the whys and whats of it.Could you?

That means we form a 'committee' which will submit a report etc etc. What if the 'committee' come with the report that 'status quo' is all right?

*** Are you suggesting that you don't know why you support autonomy?

To put it philosophically: To know the solution, you must know the problem.

*** May I propose a corollary to the theorem: One should not assert support for autonomy without having a clue to the WHYs or WHATs of it :-)?

I am very disappointed Rajen. I was hoping you will give us an intelligent presentation on why you think autonomy might be good for Assam, and because of which your belief that 'almost everybody will voice for autonomy of Assam'.

Similarly also why you don't support independence.

Rajen

Rajen

----- Original Message -----

From: Chan Mahanta

To: Barua25 ; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 7:49 PM

Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

At 5:38 PM -0500 5/27/05, Barua25 wrote:

WHY Assam should not be fully autonomous or independent.

Ooops!!!

Someone trying to equate Autonomy with Independence.

*** No, no, Rajen. You are mixing up things again. The word OR does not mean 'same as'. It means an alternative, a substitute for.

>As I said before, I have been supporting and will support for Autonomy of Assam with Defence, >Currency and Foreign Affairs being with GOI.

*** Sorry I missed that. But that is certainly a ground that could find commonality with a lot of us. Can we , for discussions' sake, call it FULL autonomy ( FA), which will include Assam's own constitution ? I could, almost, join you and others there.

But as you guessed right, that depends upon WHY autonomy ? What would YOU do with FA for Assam, that you cannot do today? No, we won't have to go around in circles, if you give me a straight-forward answer. What is there to lose by speaking straight ? I know you won't say that it is a middle ground between independence and servility, and that you will agree to it to forestall a never ending civil war of sorts. Even that could be an acceptable answer. But I would think a person like you would have a more substantive reasons. What are they?

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to push you away when we are so close.

But it is important to know, because if we don't know WHY, it would be of no use, wouldn't you agree?

And finally, just as an intellectual exercise, what would be your reasons for OPPOSING independence? I am not trying to push into a corner here, but you must have good reasons. Would you care to share them?

c

This is the nth statement:

I think everybody will voice for Autonomy for Assam. We also know your response to this.

Why, you will say, so that we can go in circle again?

As I said before, I have been supporting and will support for Autonomy of Assam with Defence, Currency and Foreign Affairs being with GOI.

Rajen

----- Original Message -----

From: Chan Mahanta

To: Rajen Barua ; assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 2:30 PM

Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

Rajen:

We have heard a lot of things about these issues from a lot of people. One aspect that has remained un-deliberated on is WHY Assam should not be fully autonomous or independent. Perhaps those of you who either are partisan to or lean towards this point of view could lay the reasons down, as best as you see them. It would be educational for everyone. Maybe some of us here who don't subscribe to that point of view will learn something from it.

>I think the 'free country' itself is a myth. In democracy, you are free as long you work from >bottom up. All you need to assure that you have a solid bottom.

If this is true, why did India chase a myth for decades on end you think? Or for that matter the USA or China or South Africa or Malaysia for example?

The 'democracy' you refer to, what kind is it? Is it the kind that is controlled from the top, imperial style, or the kind, say, in the USA, where it is far more locally oriented?

BTW, what is that solid bottom you speak of? Is it some philosophical manner of speech, 'kothar mat' ? I hope it is not a hard a-- :-).

c

At 8:08 AM -0500 5/27/05, Rajen Barua wrote:

That seems to be very simplistic explanation. Does that analogy of 'free country' really apply? I think that 'free country' itself is a myth.

We may look at it two ways. We may consider the case of Thailand for comparison.

Thailand is a country which may be called the Switzerland of Southeast Asia, I mean politically, Thailand had never been under any colonialism. For some geographical reasons or otherwise, Thailand has been missed by the super powers. I wonder how Thailand today compares to India, Pakistan, Vietnam, Burma and other which were all colonized and 'so called' exploited. Any better or worse?

We may also look at it from another way. Looking at the present situation, Bangladesh, Nepal and Burma are so called 'free' countries. If Assam were a 'free country' today, why anybody would think that the condition of Assam would be any different or any better from these countries. In fact one would suspect that Assam's condition would be much like that of Burma. Politically, you shut yourself in from outside, put the Assamese (sromojibis and the buddhijibis) under the guns, and economically no development in spite of its rich resources.

The other sceanario would have been like that of modern Kuwait. Open yourself to Americaan (and Indian) Capitalism, hire 70% experts from outside to exploit the rich resources (Assam do not have the workforce and the expertise) , and let the Assam's 'benevolent' autocracy enjoy the exploits at the exploitation of the poor Assamese 'sromojibis and the buddhijibis'.

And don't forget the problem of Nagaland taking your land and Bodos claiming parts of Assam.

I think the 'free country' itself is a myth. In democracy, you are free as long you work from bottom up. All you need to assure that you have a solid bottom.

Rajen Barua

----- Original Message -----

From: Chan Mahanta

To: umesh sharma ; Ram Sarangapani ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Cc: Assam@pikespeak.uccs.edu

Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 7:03 AM

Subject: Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

At 6:23 AM +0100 5/27/05, umesh sharma wrote:

I wonder how a landlocked region like Switzerland work so well while better placed Assam is staggering.

*** One obvious reason: Switzerland was always a free country. Assam was under the British, and now exploited by Indian colonialists.

Umesh

Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

KJD,

To this list you could add

Unhealthy business/investment climate
Safety issues (investments have to be secure)
A bandh every few days
Corruption

Lack of or weak capital market
Fewer ancilliary support business/facilities that are needed to

attract larger business.

--Ram

On 5/26/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
> I know zero economics--to be honest.The reason,it seems,as to why Assam's
> economy has been in the doldrums,is multi-factorial.Reasons behind poor
> economy of the state, in spite of her rich natural resources, as pointed out
> by one of the native economists ( whom I know),are the following:
>
> 1.Poor irrigation 2.Poor land reform 3.Under-utilisation of resources 4.Poor
> industrialisation 5.Weak transport and communication base 6.D! istant market
> 7.Inadequate power 8.Inadequate capital 9.Recurrence of floods and
> unscientific agriculture 10. Low quality of labour and poor enterpreneurship
> 11.Low level of technology 12.Excessive pressure of population.
>
> Are you all at one with the above?
>
> KJD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Assam] Assam's economy

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