He speaks for himself.
Nick Seraphin wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007, Matthew Rubenstein wrote:People call something that isn't a sexual human "gay" to insult it, because lots of people have treated gay people as really bad things. We don't say a bargainer tried to "jew us down" any more, either, even though "Jew" isn't a bad word when referring to Jewish people (except when people mean it that way). When you use the term for a group of people as an insult to something, you are insulting those people. If people called some things "christian" as an insult, for example, the way people have called things "gay" as an insult for a long time, then "that thing is christian beyond words" would insult not just the thing, but christians, too.You're going way off the deep end here, buddy. First, *I* never used the word. I'm simply saying that calling Alex a bigot for using it in the way he did is totally going overboard. I'm simply defending Alex on this because I don't think it was the end of civilization like you seem to be indicating now. You sound absolutely ridiculous. Go back and read what you just wrote. You're implying that calling an inanimate object "gay" is as bad as making Black people sit on the back of the bus in the 1950's. You're being totally irrational. Because I defended Alex's benign comment, you now called me a bigot and a racist (where did racism come into this? Is being gay now it's own race?) and "people like [me]" are the reason there's oppression in the world and why life is so horrible in this country. You're obviously liberal politically from your statements below... aren't liberals supposed to DEFEND free speech and the first amendment? Or maybe you only defend YOUR right to free speech? Anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot or a racist. Classic lines from the MoveOn.org playbook for arguments. I suppose anytime you don't agree with someone, you just "gang up on them" and beat them into submission until they succumb to your pointof view? Doesn't that make YOU the oppressive one here?If calling something "gay" is such a bigoted slur, then why don't I see any outrage from the community at all the thousands of times I've seen it used on TV or in movies in the past 10 years alone? REAL slurs, like the N-word, don't get used on broadcast television anymore and haven't for years. Yet I've often heard actors on broadcast television saying something is "gay" or "so gay". If it's such a horrible thing to say, where's the outrage over it's common use in everyday life? Don't tell me this mailing list is the first time you've ever seen someone use that word that way in recent history. Or what about all the times in TV or movies where there's a situation in which someone questions whether another man is gay or not, and they flinch, give a horrified facial expresion, and say "God No!"... that's not more insulting to gay people than Alex calling an inanimate object "gay" on a mailing list with a tiny fraction of the viewers of any TV network? You think what Alex did was worse? Yet the other thing is clearly acceptable in today's society. I guess Hollywood (which is full of gay people too) didn't get your memo. Any other common words or phrases we have to stop using on here so as to not offend you or oppress you?This is a basic point of elementary manners. Ask yourself if you would feel safe in a gay bar full of gay bikers, asked if you like the new version of Windows, and you replied that you didn't, LOUDLY, saying "THAT IS SO GAY". Would you feel safe? Would your rationalizations protect you? You're one of those people who thinks you've carved out a whole zone of bad behavior because you call rules against it "politically" correct, as if the behavior is actually correct, but there's some arbitrary rule against it. "Politically correct" refers to all kinds of correct behavior that had to be forced on bigots by oppressed groups, because bigots, usually in the majority, could be stopped only by a "political" process, like long appeals like this one to people's sense of decency buried under their convenient traditional bigotry. People like you have long insisted from your conveniently protected roles in society that all kinds of ethnic slurs are OK. But their common use is a reminder to people they insult that the insults are accepted, will not be opposed, that the insulter has power to offend that the insulted does not have power to stop. The reality is referred to by the insult. To remind everyone that the target is an acceptable victim, which perpetuates the abuse. Including physical and political abuse. Gay people, even in America, are often second class citizens, with all kinds of rights and privileges denied them. And your calling something "gay" as an arbitrary insult to it is helping keep it that way. If you don't understand that, it's because you understand nothing about politics or how large groups of people operate. And now you're defending your ignorance, just because it's convenient to you.Geez, Just call me Hitler so I can invoke Godwin's Law already. You're almost there with the above statements anyway. :-)I didn't say that making that slur was the sole action keeping everyone down. But it is part of it. And people failing to confront those little, everyday abuses is the essential part of it. Every time a White person in Alabama let a bus driver direct a Black person to the back of the bus, or any other of the little acceptable codes of racism was indulged rather than confronted, the racism was kept propped up by the person going along as much as by the person enforcing it. I also didn't say anything about "Christmas". But your bringing it up refers to you acting like there's some kind of "war on Christmas", the idiotic culture war that lets privileged people like you act like victims, when you're not. A sad perversion of what Christmas is supposed to stand for: the birth of someone who brought compassion for everyone, no matter their station, regardless of how socially acceptable it was to treat some people like animals or objects.Well based on that statement, I now know you're a far-left liberal nut and there's no way I can win this argument with you, so I'm not even going to try. Go ahead and claim victory... tell me "you're giving up because you know you're wrong" or whatever canned phrase liberals are using this week. You've proven you're irrational, and I don't have time to waste arguing with an irrational person. If someone else, who isn't irrational, wants to discuss this with meprivately, I'll be happy to continue off-list.Bigotry is *real*. It ruins lives. Just because you're privilegedYes... calling an inanimate object "gay" is ruining lives. The body count must be in the thousands. Got to be George Bush's fault! Just like Katrina!BTW, ending your excuses with an insult and a smiley doesn't make it OK. And your saying that your bigotry is no big deal, just because *you* are so casual about it, doesn't mean it really is like that.It wasn't an insult. Again, you see something where it doesn't exist. My God, I still cannot believe that you went this ape over Alex's comment. I'm literally shaking my head in disbelief as I type this. -- Nick _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
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