Doh! It was just supposed to fade away into the archives...... On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 1:21 PM, David Boyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi John, > > Are there any updates to this thread. I have not seen any further > response from Digium, in the last 45- 50 days, and therefore am > wondering if there will be any additional response. > > Thanks, > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion > <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk > Discussion <asterisk-biz@lists.digium.com> > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Open letter to digium, asterisk developers > and consultants > Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2008 19:53:05 -0500 > > Brett - > Sorry for the delay on this - many of us were off-site yesterday, > and today has been catch-up while writing snippets of this throughout > the day. > > You've brought up some good points, but I think they are issues of > perception instead of issues of intention. While Digium does keep > control over the Asterisk and Digium trademarks, I think it is not > our intention (or ability) to lock them down quite in the way you > describe. I will admit that after closely reading our policy and > comparing it against your described concerns, there does seem to be > some ways in which we can re-word that document so as to become more > clear and allay your fears. Some of your points are quite > reasonable, and we will see what we can do to make it more obvious as > to our goals with this policy, or at a minimum explain each in more > detail here or on the trademark page. > > I have a meeting tomorrow with our internal counsel to go into some > of these details specifically and hopefully a longer reply will > result from that meeting. However, our comments on this have to be a > bit more deliberate and well-thought out on all of your points than I > will be able to produce today/this evening. I have responded to a > few of the issues below that are most obvious, and I would ask that > you give me a day or two in order to come up with more concrete > answers on some of the points that I do not address in this message. > I have not outlined a response to every issue you make in the text > below, but please be a bit patient as we work towards resolving or > clarifying your points. > > Let me just say again that while it is our intention to prevent > confusing and dilutive use of our trademarked terms (most notably, > the term "Asterisk") we do not intend to prevent the legitimate use > of our trademarks when it comes to basic descriptive uses. > > See the bottom of this message for some references. My more > specific comments are in-line. > > At 2:47 AM +0200 2008/6/9, Trixter aka Bret McDanel wrote: >> >>I am writing this letter to Digium and all those that use or develop >>software for Asterisk. Asterisk is released under a dual license, the >>one I will focus on is the GPL license. >> >>Digium maintains a trademark on the word Asterisk, along with other >>words. The trademark policy they have forbids marketing a product with >>the asterisk word if it is not "Genuine Digium Software". If you modify >>software, apply a patch, add 3rd party modules, this trademark policy >>prevents you from distributing that software saying that its based on >>asterisk, or even using the name asterisk within the program. >> >>This is particularly problematic for 3rd party module developers, since >>they are forbidden from ever revealing that the module is "asterisk >>compatible". The same applies to AGIs. All of this software is not >>"Genuine Digium Software". Consultants are not allowed per the >>trademark policy from stating they work on asterisk systems, even if thy >>are genuine digium software products. >> >>Further, the exceptions to linking that come with asterisk include >>critical libraries that will not allow for building if the project is >>not asterisk. The trademark policy forces a fork in the software due to >>the name, however the exceptions make this a less than trivial task >>since you would have to replicate openssl and other libraries. In >>general this policy makes it all but impossible to distribute modified >>works based on asterisk. >> >>The Digium trademark policy is available at http://www.digium.com for >>reference. > > http://www.digium.com/en/company/view-policy.php?id=Trademark-Policy > >>While this may seem reasonable under the protection of the brand name, >>it does defy the spirit and intent of the GPL in that effectively Digium >>has banned forks of the project, distribution of 3rd party modules, >>distribution of modified code, etc. >> >>I understand that digium wants to protect their name, their branding, >>and make a clear difference between what they release and what others >>release, however it seems to fly in the face of open source, the Free >>Software Foundation, and the GPL specifically to place these >>restrictions on the software. It also makes it so that people who have >>developed components for asterisk may have a difficult time leveraging >>that experience for personal or professional advancement. >> >>I am requesting that the disclaimer apply to forks of the asterisk >>project and not just asterisk itself, as this would allow people to >>comply with the trademark policy and still distribute a functional >>program under the terms of the GPL license. >> >>I further request that a difference be made in the trademark policy >>allowing for advertising of products that include phrases such as >>"Asterisk Compatible" or "Based on Asterisk" should someone wish to >>place their AGI, 3rd party module, patch, etc on a webpage and write a >>description for it. > > It is my belief that this is the case already, and that if you use > the term in a descriptive manner the word "Asterisk" can be used > without requiring Digium's permission. Similar to the way you can > say "We use 3M paints" or "This car runs on Exxon gasoline" without > getting releases from 3M or Exxon, it is possible to say "This module > is used by Asterisk to perform functions with the foo server." > However, if you say "Asterisk-Powered" or "Asterisk Inside", then you > would move from descriptive use to infringing use in a product name. > In some cases, you may even see people using specific disclaimers in > their advertisements like "All trademarks referenced in this > advertisement are property of their respective owners" or similar > wording. No permissions have been provided, but acknowledgement is > sometimes additionally given to remove even the possibility of > confusion. > > This distinction between descriptive and assigning uses perhaps needs > to be made more clear, and our wording might be inappropriate. I > will address this with our counsel and see what we can do to resolve > this in one or more of three ways: 1) Clarify our documents with > better examples to match what you reference, 2) Clarify our policy > wording to make it more obvious as to our intentions, or 3) clarify > my understanding of this and correct my perhaps incorrect > interpretation. > >>I encourage anyone who agrees that the spirit of the GPL be followed, >>not just its wording to contact digium in support of this proposal. >> >> >>Specifics about the trademark policy obtained from >>http://www.digium.com/en/company/view-policy.php?id=Trademark-Policy on >>June 08 2008, 2:35am CEST. >> >>General >>Genuine Digium Software is the software in the same form as originally >>distributed by Digium, without modification to the code of any extent. >>The only exception is that software may still be considered Genuine >>Digium Software if, in connection with distribution of that software for >>a certain platform, code has been removed that relates to functions that >>would not work on that platform in any event. Once a change has been >>made to the software, even if that change may be permissible under the >>GPL, the software is no longer Genuine Digium Software, because Digium >>did not make or control the change. >> >> >>Uses that are not approved by this policy >>"Use of a Trademark in a web page title, TITLETAG, META tag, or other >>manner with the intent or the likely effect of influencing search engine >>rankings or results listings." >> >>Search engines rank based on content of a page, this in effect prevents >>you from using the trademarked words in your webpage if the software is >>not "genuine". >> >> >>Uses that are not approved by this policy >>"Use of a Trademark to refer to services offered by your company, or to >>suggest that your services are authorized or endorsed by Digium." >> >>If you are a consultant who specializes in asterisk systems you cannot >>mention that, even if it is genuine digium software per the first part >>of this policy. >> >> >>There is a allowed use under the "fair use" provision, which has the >>potentail to remove these, however the policy itself does not make it >>clear that you would be allowed to use it in this way, and it does seem >>to indicate specifically you cannot. > > I would agree that we have failed to make this as obvious as we > should, and that will be a topic of discussion and possibly > clarification in the document. Our intention has never been to lock > the word "Asterisk" so that it is impossible to use - that is not our > goal, nor is it possible legally. If you are a consultant who works > with Asterisk, by all means please put that on your website and in > your CV! We encourage that type of use; it broadens the Asterisk > ecosystem. Using the word "Asterisk" in a statement of factual use > is not prohibited - you can say "My company works on developing code > and systems which utilize Asterisk." However, when it becomes used > as a descriptive term such as "Asterisk Enabled" then that does seem > like it is an infringing use. More on this in the follow-up reply to > this soon to come. > >>-- >>Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel >>Belfast +44 28 9099 6461 US +1 516 687 5200 >>http://www.trxtel.com the phone company that pays you! > > > Further, here are some videos of the recent talk given at > Asterisk-tag.org last week, which relate specifically to how Digium > manages and protects its trademarks, service marks, and copyrights: > > Michelle Petrone-Fleming, Digium: > > 1 of 2: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7721041484802602556&hl=en > 2 of 2: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9080097810538247406&hl=en > > Basic trademark legal summary: > > http://www.publaw.com/fairusetrade.html > > JT > > > > _______________________________________________ > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona > Register Now: http://www.astricon.net > > asterisk-biz mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz >
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