yes, what value does the L2 actually provide and what knowledge gap exists
> On 4 Feb 2017, at 5:55 PM, Greg Wilson <g...@gregwilson.id.au> wrote: > > One low cost step toward improving the gliding "product" would be to make GPC > holders responsible for their own flying instead of relying on a L2 > instructor's presence at launch. > > I can understand how the current system evolved from clubs wanting to control > pilots in their aircraft but surely it's time for this outdated system to be > relinquished. > > Enough discussion here may even start movement in that direction from GFA. > What do you think? > > Regards, > > > Greg Wilson > > > > > ---- On Sat, 04 Feb 2017 11:13:37 +1100 James > McDowall<james.mcdowal...@gmail.com> wrote ---- > > Before it is worth spending another cent on marketing gliding, it is > essential to get the product right. After 30 years of flogging the current > model all that has been achieved is a 50% reduction in membership. In the > same period the population of Australia increased by 50% so the market > penetration of the product has fallen by two thirds. Any commercial product > manager who did not address the product deficiencies in this situation who > most certainly end up unemployed. > > The fundamental problem is that the core membership have a propensity to say > “I bought the product and it works for me so it is a good product.” This > illusory logic is what has caused some notable marketing failures from the > Ford Edsel to Kodak to Blackberry and Nokia. > > The problem is illustrated in this forum where many experienced and > passionate glider pilots, many of them not currently involved in the activity > (is it really a sport?), have identified that the product is wrong for the > current marketplace. > > Over the decades GFA and others have sought to “market” the product ie join a > club, be a volunteer, get fried in the sun and always be under the control of > a CFI even if he/she is not even near the airfield. > > Gliding is not really a cheap alternative to RA_Aus. You and a couple of > mates can buy a Jab for $25K and have a heap of fun. Registration and > membership cost are lower and maintenance costs are similar until the donk > spits a dummy in which case there of plenty of secondhand motors around. In > the meantime many flyng hours on your terms. > > Gliding needs to get closer to the GA / RA-Aus model. The days of primary > gliders on the Wussekrappe are well gone. Independent operation of gliders > needs to be encouraged not seen as a distant goal for a newbie. Self > launchers should be mandatory for training (GFA could use its millions to > help out here), commercial training operations encouraged to unload clubs of > the responsibility and GFA should get out of the rule writing business. > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Stuart Wolf <stuac...@gmail.com> wrote: > It would be interesting to get a survey to that effect. I have found that > with the people I have tried to recruit. Those who show an interest see it as > a high performance sport. > > Aside from the sporting aspect, what does gliding hope to offer a new member? > Cheap flying? Prices are compatible to RA-Aus. > Convenient flying? No matter about procedural changes at the club level > powered will always have the upper hand. > Professional opportunities? Again, RA aus can be converted to GA and > commercial much easier > Cost of ownership? I have much more options in Ra Australia, especially at > the lower end of the market. > > Instead of trying to copy RA aus's attraction (on which gliding will always > be on the back foot) we should be chasing the people who want what Ra Aus > doesnt offer. > > I've found that sharing tasks and talking about performance of people at > comps has attracted more follow up and continuing engagement on the topic > than the flying aspect. > > The people who I have got interested in the flying have moved on to RA Aus > for the exact reasons I've stated > > > > On Friday, February 3, 2017, Matthew Scutter <yellowplant...@gmail.com> wrote: > Regarding the competition pilot vs. non-competition pilot debate, I don't > think I've met a junior that hasn't been, or doesn't want to go to Joeyglide. > Perhaps in the broader population competition pilots are under represented, > but amongst younger pilots (fresh blood) it seems to swing the other way. > > On 3 Feb 2017 2:56 PM, "Greg Wilson" <g...@gregwilson.id.au> wrote: > In an attempt to get a worthwhile discussion get back on track. Not my ideas > but a brief summary of this conversation so far. > > Perceived problems: > > GFA administration > Overly focused on competition carried out by a tiny minority of pilots > Resistant to change > Minimum required to deal with CASA > > Clubs > Membership declining > > Training > Volunteer based - not providing scheduled and efficient training expected by > younger people > Instructors need to be paid > > Pilots > Very few given L2 independent ops so vast majority permanently operating > under supervision of instructors > Gliding responsibility needs to be in the hands of the pilot, not club or CFI > Aging pilots > > Aircraft > Many aging gliders > many out of service yet still on register > > Solutions?? > > > Greg Wilson > > > > > ---- On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 21:40:18 +1100 Robert > Izatt<thebunyipboo...@gmail.com> wrote ---- > Not entirely true. Many have indicated a direction. > Your problem is, for 1 through 4 you have to have willingness and > co-operation from the clubs and the management skills at the club level. Most > members of a club want to enjoy the activity without having to run a > business. You need special or stupid people who are happy to devote countless > hours to this when really the club (or some members) doesn’t want to deal > with all the hassles of larger numbers, less access to equipment > (glider/tug), bigger queues at the flight line etc etc etc. I have been > there. > And that’s their right and good luck to them. > > > On 2 Feb. 2017, at 11:11 am, Peter Carey <ca...@ericorp.com.au> wrote: > > This has been a very deep and meaningful discussion and, to me, it was > enlightening and educational. Most of the contributions were well thought out > and clearly expressed. > My only problem is that the conversation was confined to defining the problem > and, what we should be concentrating is a solution. > We have done the talk, now, let's try to do the walk. > I am new to the game (been gliding for 40 years) and a bloody foreigner > (living here for 60 years) so, you have to forgive me if I am on the wrong > path. > We won't be able to solve the membership decline issue with volunteer, > amateur way so, we need to look for an alternative and here is one of many. > > For years the GFA has been sitting on well over a million dollars. I suggest > that we spend half of it on professional planning and marketing. > We would get an organization to > 1. Draw up a business plan for the GFA and for the Clubs (one each for large, > medium and small Clubs) > 2. Draw up a plan and budget for effective publicity and social media > campaign. > 3. Oversee the implementation of the above. > 4. The implementation should be carried out by the staff employed by the GFA. > > This is my crude attempt to invite praise, abuse and expansion to the above. > > “Beside the noble art of getting things done, there is the noble art of > leaving things undone.” > ― lin yu tang > > Peter Carey > > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Erich Wittstock <deepb...@gmail.com> wrote: > ..ahh..the sweet sound of jealousy! ;-) > > On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 10:10 AM, Mark Newton <new...@atdot.dotat.org> wrote: > On 2 Feb 2017, at 9:24 AM, steph...@internode.on.net wrote: > > > If we assume it is only age related, the register shows that the cut off > > year for the 600 oldest gliders is 1978. So all that "old low performance > > stuff" would include all the LS1s, Cirrus, Libelles, Mosquitos, Astir > > CS/CS77s and Hornets and some of the Jantars, PIK20s, ASW20s and LS3s. > > > > The ASH-25 first flew in 1987. That makes it a 30 year old aircraft. > > Won’t be too long before it’s classified as a vintage sailplane :-) > > - mark > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > -- > PETER CAREY > Executive Member > The Victorian Vernier Society > The Society for People with a Passion for Manufacturing > 'sharing experience - building a better future' > www.vernier.org.au > 0412464340 > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.base64.com.au > http://lists.base64.com.au/listinfo/aus-soaring
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