Yes ! Yes ! Yes! David. Christopher Mc Donnell. (Arrow with long wings fella)
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Olsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2002 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License) > My own experience and, if I may speak on behalf of members of the NQSC, is > that a small club like ours benefits from not attracting large numbers of > the T shirt brigade, we tend to encourage the "selling" of memberships > rather than AEF's. To extend the sales metaphor we try to "qualify sales" to > ensure that the people who are "invited" to the field, are those most likely > to take up the sport. > > How does this help? For a small club it means that the existing > student/aircraft are not heavily taxed by "tyre kickers". The club aircraft > are therefore available for students and post solo pilots. We endeavour > where possible to have the students and post solo club pilots run their own > show with the help of rostered instructors, while private owners fly their > own aircraft without the need to spend heaps of time on the ground running > the wire and such like. In exchange the private owners do much of the > administrative and other work as well as pay for the club hangar via hangar > rental. Granted it is not a perfect system and many post solo pilots work > hard at the field and do lots of other work. We (the private owners) try > very hard to ensure such members are given the maximum opportunity to fly > and many private owners will also choose not to fly at all on particular > days, giving all of their energies to maintenance issues or to operating the > winch etc. > > In the end what we have is a system where students and early post solo > pilots run their own operation at the field under the supervision of the > duty instructor.. Owners provide instruction, DI training, airworthiness > training, AEI, and other functions and get to fly pretty much as much as > they can. Students and post solo pilots get to fly the two club aircraft as > much as they can so long as they can make the operation efficient. This > means that the keen new members are doing quite a bit of the drudgery but > are rewarded with the flying they need, and the private owners get to fly > unhindered but are providing much of the infrastructure required for the > club to function. > > When growth is rapid (as it has been for us recently) all members are > challenged a bit, but we all try very hard to maximise the flying > opportunities for ALL. Private owners will give up their flying to maximise > the flying for students and non-owners and then we'll try to organise a day > where only private owners fly. Sometimes we man the winch for each other, > and sometimes a hard working post solo non-owner will offer his time. > > I think for small operations, a true co-operative approach is essential. We > all must be aware of the needs of the others and try our best to be fair and > equitable. > > AEF's still occur but mostly with well qualified people. Special days are > sometimes organised for less well qualified people, but the emphasis is > always on attracting prospective new members. I have even gone to the extent > of asking people if they want to fly just for the experience or if they are > seriously considering taking up the sport. If they answer the the former, I > direct them to another club, or arrange for them to come on a day when I > know we will have a lot of AEF's. > > My own feeling is that small clubs should not focus on raising revenue via > AEF's, but focus on giving maximum value to existing members. Newer members > are keen and should be encouraged to participate in the running of the daily > operation, sure many cannot afford the time to be at the field all day and > will not choose gliding, a shame for the sport but no real loss to a small > club. Look for those who will! Maybe some day your operation will be big > enough and efficient enough to attract those people back, or they can learn > to soar at a commercial operation. > > The ratios for selling our sport are not all that different to any other > sales exercise, wasting your club resources getting as many AEF's as > possible, is just that "wasteful." My own estimates are as follows > > Unqualified interest ( I have always wanted to try that) HUNDREDS of people > Well why dont you here is how you can do it blah blah blah..... > AEF's as a result 20 > New members 1 > > Qualified ( I am really interested in learning to fly a glider) 10 > AEF's as a result 5 > New members 1 > > So you can fly 20 people and use all of your club resources, taking time > away from those who have already paid and worked hard to be there and get NO > MEMBERS or you can fly 5 and get a new member. > > These numbers may vary from place to place and from "salesperson" to > "salesperson", but the principle is still the same. If yu are a small club, > qualify your prospective new members and fly only those who you think are > most likely to take up the sport, direct the rest to a commercial operation. > > David Olsen > > > . > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Rundle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 1:34 PM > Subject: Re: Pay it forward (was Re: [aus-soaring] Rec License) > > > > John, > > > > > So as the burden of club > > > obligations interferes with my enjoyment of a sport I love, I find I am > > > casting about looking for alternatives to Gliding Club operations to > enjoy > > > the thrill of flying. > > > > You've put your finger on what I see as a problem (challange?) facing > > gliding > > clubs. After a while, running ropes and driving winches just becomes > > like hard > > labour. Especially when much of that labour is being given to students > > of whom > > a large proportion will not continue on in the sport. As clubs generally > > try > > to keep fees as low as possible to encourage new blood, the end result > > of all > > this activity is little or no financial benefit to the club, little or > > no new > > blood and a burnt out longer term membership. Clubs need to identify those > > individuals that are in if for the long term and eliminate the "got the > > t-shirt" > > brigade. > > > > How? Buggered if I know, but here are some ideas. And for those critics > > in the > > wings, please remember that I'm not suggesting that all clubs should > > adopt these > > ideas, but that some clubs might be able to make a go of it, where they > are > > currently failing. Also, whilst my rantings on this list might lead many > to > > believe that I'm "anti-club" that is not in fact true. Clubs need to exist > > because (most) individuals simply can't afford to run their own > > airfield, and to > > a lesser extent, their own aircraft. However, the politics that > > invariably comes > > with the club scene becomes destructive, and in todays recreational > market, > > where individual freedom rates highly, clubs are a major problem for > > aviation > > and gliding in particular because it relies on clubs the most. > > > > . Initial training in motor gliders allows the student to get lots of > > circuits > > and aerial work without the need for anyone else on the field (except the > > instructor of course). The instructor can also focus on the student, and > > flight > > bookings are practical so that todays time harried recreator can > > realistically > > fit in some flying without being charged with family neglect. Downsides, > > cost, > > motor gliders are either new and expensive or old and rare. Possibility > > of the > > motor glider as the club tug on Sundays might help. Alternatively some > > training > > could be conducted in Ulight's, same benefits as a motorglider but > > possibly less > > expensive capital purchase. A common licencing system would help in this > > regard. > > Student might be put off by the engine bit, after all they wanted to > > take up > > gliding, but then others who enjoy all types of flying could see it as a > > bonus. > > The hourly rate might seem higher, but two half hour flights with > > aero-tows, > > 2 x $25 + $45/hr = $95. In the motor glider you'd get a whole lot more > > circuits > > in your hour and end up paying around the same amount with no pushing of > > gliders > > running of ropes, obligation to stay and help the next student. > > > > . Clubs have non-student days. Means that all the students turn up on > > their day > > and thus they run ropes etc for the other students when not flying, > > rather than > > one or two students turning up each flying day. Those that enjoy > > teaching have > > their time in the sun on those days leaving the solo pilots to have > > their day > > as well. Again, a licence/rating that allowed for operation without L2 > > instructor > > would make it a lot easier for a club to do this. > > > > . Clubs that don't train at all. At the moment, the GFA system means > > each and > > every club is required to have a training operation. The end result is > > that only > > the larger clubs have good training resources, the smaller clubs are > > stretched > > to provide the necessary equipment and personel, and it's central place > > in the > > club operation is off putting to qualified pilots. If clubs (and I'm > > thinking > > smaller clubs in particular) could operate without a training system, > > and send > > their students to other clubs/schools to be trained, then they might be > > able to > > focus on providing quality gliding hours to solo pilots, whilst the > > training > > club/schools might be more economically viable because of the increase in > > students (as a result of the student population not being stretched > > across 90 > > clubs in Aus). Also the increased viability of the schools means that > > pilots > > that belong to non-training clubs have somewhere to go to get checks done. > > A single check flight might be pricing event for these pilots but it's a > > once > > a year. Again requires a licencing system that allows a club to exist > > *without* > > an instructors panel. > > > > rgds > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > > > > > -- > * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. > * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message > * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information. > -- * You are subscribed to the aus-soaring mailing list. * To Unsubscribe: send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] * with "unsubscribe aus-soaring" in the body of the message * or with "help" in the body of the message for more information.
