My two bobs worth, There have been plenty of GA/Ultralight accidents where pilots have spun in, or stalled in , mainly the old engine failure and return to airfield, some of these under instruction! High nose attitude on climb out and trying to turn without sufficient indicated airspeed, I have seen two at my airfield, the last resulted in two crispy pilots, by the time I had got to them one was still burning in the cockpit, my mate had managed to drag the other free, this was a result of a stall when trying to clear power lines!
Initial spin training in gliding has a role, as an instructor for 15 years to demonstrate a fully devolved spin seemed to me to be a waste of time, an insipient was plenty to get the message through. Also, most of the time it was hard to get the glider to spin, and the recovery required very little forward stick to recover ( K-13 ), I think some recovered from fright - just letting go!. I have seen and heard of over enthusiastic forward bunting leading to inverted flight ( -G ) - not good! There are allot of aircraft that I would not like to spin in anyway and mike has pointed out two, and some approaching 30+ years, so if I refuse to get a check in the only one spin able aircraft they have does that mean I cannot renew my annual requirement? Another thing, when are we going to come into line with the GA pilot requirements, Bi annual - not annual, subject to recency like all aero clubs around Australia have. Some of their club rules include things like if you have not flown a particular type of aircraft in the past 3 months, then a check is required, irrespective of your currency in other types. This is not as silly as it sounds, I have seen a pilot who was an instructor just hop in to a Nimbus 2 because she was current ( not on type ) and subsequently crash on takeoff, putting the pilot in hospital and destroying the glider! Cheers all Saturday here on the downs I nearly cracked 400km's at 110 KPH - blue day west of the divide, on the divide convergence Cu, worked to 9,000. First thermal 20km north of warwick was 10 knotts to 7,000- 11.45am in the morning! Dalby here we come! Nigel Andrews RF Developments Pty Ltd "A Queensland Company devoted to Research and Development in aviation electronics" Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web www.rf-developments.com Ph: (61) 7 54635670 Fax: (61) 7 54635695 **************DISCLAIMER************ The information contained in the above e-mail message or messages (which includes any attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the use of the person or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the addressee any form of disclosure, copying, modification, distribution or any action taken or omitted in reliance on the information is unauthorised. If you received this communication in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete it from your computer system network. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 8:31 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] RE: Spinning, outlandings, - a rounded pilot! Jeepers, this certainly is a big forum with lots of views. Maybe I'm getting out of my comfort zone. I will try one more time though. There was never a spinning accident in my 20 years that I can remember. The 707 was a special and very isolated case that should never have happened. The procedure there cannot be compared to spinning in a glider. Spinning both the Winjeel and Macchi solo were requirements in 1974/5. We had to check that the "Dolls eyes" operated at a sensible time to indicate no fuel in either of the tip tanks. We were told then that the biggest risk to flying was hitting another Macchi, probably coming the other way. BTW, I remember getting my met briefing from Mike Borgelt (and comparing notes on thermistors and wheatstone bridges). Training accidents certainly were not acceptable at 1FTS/2FTS. It was more likely at the Mirage and helicopter squadrons due to the ACFT and their roles so I guess you mean acceptable losses there and at battle stations generally in your post. We haven't lost a Hercules yet and yes, trash haulers had to leant aerobatics and spinning too. Mal Williams tells me that interservice gliding is at risk because of the perceived dangers. (Hitting onother service glider?) I didn't see that coming when I helped set the program up in the late 70's. So I think it is safe to say accidents are not acceptable in the Air Force and yet they still insist on spin training. (Shame about the interservice gliding though) My civilian flying job requires the same rigorous training that I came to expect in the Air Force. Unusual attitudes on instruments, autorotations, simulated tail rotor failures and simulator training for the really dangerous ones. How is this relevant I hear you ask. Gliding also requires a certain standard if we are to continue to enjoy the expected freedom. Standards across the board are hard to test for so we had better be able to do those that we can test for easily. Simulators cost too much money so that means spin training. But I'm getting drawn off the subject. I think a rounded pilot is a confident pilot and this makes a better pilot. He has more to call on when things don't go as planned. When someone asks why to spinning or outlanding practice, it could have been; why a no instrument circuit and landing, why a side slipping approach, why a modified circuit. One may never need to use them but it is comforting for the pilot and his club to know that he can if need be and it gives an indication of ones ability in other areas that cannot be tested so easily. Time for dinner. ;-) Quoting Anthony Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > We aren't in the Air Force(thank God). Air forces(and the military in > general) take much higher chances of killing their people in training > than is acceptable for civilians. This is rational as the prime > purpose is to accomplish the mission and if it takes material and > people to do that - that is how it is. > > However as I remember it the RAAF didn't encourage spinning the Macchi > back in the early 70's. I got to do extensive aerobatics in it but > nobody talked about spinning it. Intentional solo spinning for the > students wasn't allowed was it?(I was the base met man for 3 years and > met men were encouraged to fly) > > ----------------- > > To answer Mike's question on spinning Macchi's: From my conversations > with the ARDU test pilots in the very early 90's. The Macchi span > like a top and had an exceptionally high descent rate in the spin. > Once wound up it took some time to unwind too. Under some > circumstances it tended to go flat (Sounds like a Pooch doesn't it!) and took even longer to recover. > > At the time of my flight in a Macchi the doctrine was to start very > high and recover by 10,000 ft. If you passed thru 10,000' and still > spinning you were supposed to eject. The 'legend' was that if you > hadn't recovered as you went thru 10k, you weren't going to recover > before the ground got in the way. > > Anthony > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > Best regards, Daryl _____________________________________________ This email (including all attachments) is confidential. It may contain personal information and is intended solely for the named addressee. Confidentiality is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let me know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. No part of it should be reproduced, adapted, or published without my written consent, as the copyright owner, or communicated or forwarded to anyone other than me. Any personal information in this email must be handled in accordance with the Privacy Act 1988 (Cth). http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/pasteact/0/157/0/PA002090.htm _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
