All
I did a quick search of rec.aviation.soaring via Google Groups, and it turned up some information that suggested that Zulu Romeo, Good Start may have been produced by, or involved, Peter Weir (of Witness, Truman Show, Picnic at Hanging Rock fame). I have no way of knowing whether it is true or not, but a bit of research suggest that Peter Weir's earliest films were 1971 (Homesdale) then 1974 (The Cars that Ate Paris) and 1975 (Picnic at Hanging Rock). No mention of any gliding documentaries in there !
Whether it is accurate that he had anything to do with Zulu Romeo, Good Start, I do not know. It seems, at face value, to be unlikely.
With regard to the Rod Kinnear connection that has not been proven incorrect, surely the Zulu Romeo, Good Start movie has *SOME* credits at the beginning or end which explains who on earth produced it, and thus who owns the copyright. Heck, even the names of the cameramen would be useful. Maybe someone from that production's past is still contactable.
Regards
Jason
At 02:35 PM 15/01/2005, Kevin McGowan wrote:
All,
I had a conversation with Marcia in the GFA office on Friday and she said that Rod Kinnear had made the last copies for the GFA he had nothing to do with it otherwise.
McG
From: Jason Armistead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Zulu Romeo, Good Start - making the firstmoves to sort this out
Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2005 23:12:58 +1100
John
Perhaps you did not see the posting from Owen Jones who has Digest mode on (only 1 message per day, but all under a generic DIgest subject) who revealed who the producer of this was.
He says:
> By the way on the video itself it say "Rod Kinnear Productions". A White > Pages internet search reveals that there is a
> Kinnear Rod Productions (Aust) Pty Ltd > 280 Toomuc Valley Rd Pakenham 3810 (03) 5941 1786
I guess someone on this list will have to make first contact with these people.
Why don't you do it John, since I believe you're from Victoria and hence physically much closer to this chap that many of the rest of us.
Otherwise this Rod Kinnear chap could end up with dozens of glider pilots all phoning him !
Regards
Jason Armistead
At 06:38 PM 14/01/2005, John Parncutt wrote:I agree that if there is any possibility of finding the copyright owner we should obtain their permission or even hopefully get a master copy from them. Sadly it has been my experience that it is very rare to find the owner or master copies of footage considered to be for non mainstream consumption even just a few years old. The stuff just gets thrown out, for instance you would be amazed at what has been lost/destroyed by TV stations, even popular programs produced in the 60's and 70's no longer exist.
If anyone out there knows the copyright owner please let me know and I will make all efforts to contact them, otherwise we should go ahead and copy it otherwise it will never get done!
Cheers,
John
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jason Armistead Sent: Friday, 14 January 2005 5:14 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Zulu Romeo, Good Start
John
Don't get me wrong in mentioning copyright matters. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and would also LOVE to see this footage retained as a valuable record of Australian gliding's past.
But I also don't want to find that we've overstepped the boundaries of copyright for either the film itself (assuming the original copyright owner (or their successor) exists, which based on other posts seems likely), or any audio recordings used as background music are not licensed correctly. 30 years ago it mightn't have been a problem, or everyone looked the other way, but times have changed.
Particulary if the GFA is involved in distributing the DVD, then it puts them at risk of being slapped with a fine for any breach. Ditto for companies or individuals. Why risk it ?
Let's do our homework on this and, as I say to my kids, "do it once and do it right". Then we might end up with the best quality DVD possible rather than something hastily transferred from a second-rate VHS copy.
Who knows, there might even be a good quality master film still existing somewhere out there that we could use rather than relying on VHS tapes. OK, it might cost more to transfer, but it may also yield a better end result for us and future generations of glider pilots.
Cheers
Jason Armistead
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 09:03:48 +1100, John Parncutt wrote
> I have the facilities to create DVD's directly from a VHS tape (without
> having to go via DV tape) this will produce the best possible copy
(limited
> of course by the quality of the VHS). The copyright situation is a little
> more complex since there would be or have been a copyright owner.
> However if the original copyright owner is uncontactable, no longer
> exists or unable to provide copies then in all honesty I don't see
> why it can't be copied and made available to the gliding community
> (the lawyers may have something different to say about this).
>
> If someone can lend me the tape, I can facititate this and make available
> DVD copies for the gliding community. I must emphasise I am offering
> to do this on a non profit basis with a minimal cost to cover the
> cost of the DVD disks (currently about a $1.50 each) and postage.
>
> I am keen to preserve gliding footage generally and it seems the
> best way to do this is to get as many copies out into the community!
>
> John Parncutt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike
> Cleaver
> Sent: Friday, 14 January 2005 1:13 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Zulu Romeo, Good Start
>
> Jason and others with shorter memories than some of us (you did not all
> exist 32 years ago!)
>
> The film "Zulu Romeo, Good Start" was the film shot for the GFA of
> the 1974 World Gliding Championships, held at Waikerie in January
> 1974 by a professional film production company. At that stage it
> didn't have a title. The first screening was held at the Waikerie
> Driv e-in the night before the end of the Championships, with
> towering Cus all around as the day had been the best day yet of the
> comp with a 500 km task for just about all classes, though I think
> it was not until the last day that Michael Kun of Mexico, flying
> Zulu Sierra (now owned by Martin and Anna Gregory) actually competed
> a task!
>
> At that stage, Ingo Renner held a slim lead in Standard Class,
> flying the Standard Cirrus, Zulu Romeo, that later gave the film its
> title.
>
> On the last day, a Saturday, a 300 km task was set to the south-east
> and south. Bernard Fitchett of the UK (I think in 4th place) took
> an early start and realised just before the first TP how much the
> day had improved, when the Polish team flew past him at incredible
> speed. The Poles had sent an Open Class glider ahead to sniff out
> the lift for Stan Witek (I think) who was in third place overall -
> he won the day handsomely, and the practice of allowing a team-mate
> in another class to pairs-fly was banned in World comps from then
> on. Bernie took a second launch as soon as he had finished the task,
> but his second circuit was a bit slower as the day was by then
> dying. Meanwhile, Ingo hit a gust on his starting run (Vne under a
> 100-metre gate) and bent the over-centre lock of the Cirrus
> divebrakes. He flew the entire task holding the brakes closed by
> hand, but this and the Polish team-flying made it impossible for
> him to hold the overall lead and he finised a creditable second
> overall - hence the title Zulu Romeo, Good Start! This in itself
> was taken from the radio call confirming the start line observers,
> with their mirror-sighting device, had located him below the magic
> 1000 metres across the start line.
>
> As Nick said, the GFA still holds the original print but it has been
> copied many times and is now somewhat damaged - hence the request
> for a clean copy. Many of us have suggested it now should be re-
> mastered onto DVD for future preservation and safe keeping. 32
> years ago is a long time, but many of the gliders that were there
> for the Worlds will be there again now, competing in the Club Class
> Nationals - particularly the Libelles and Cirruses.
>
> Meanwhile, the Open Class winner in 1974, George Moffat (USA), is
> reportedly editing his soaring textbook/memoirs "Winning on the
> Wind" for a second edition to be published soon.
>
> Wombat
>
> At 12:39 AM 14/01/2005, you wrote:
> >Owen/Nick
> >
> >Who produced the video in the first place, and are there any copyright
> issues
> >to consider ?
> >
> >Are GFA interested in obtaining a relatively "fresh" copy (I'd say a
> 3-times
> >played one qualifies !) and getting a copy from that which could be used
as
> a
> >master (maybe capture straight to DV tape and then onto DVD to try and
> >minimise generation losses ?)
> >
> >If Ian McPhee believes it was shot on film stock (quite likely if it was
> done
> >pre the personal video camera revolution), then maybe the film masters
are
> >still held by someone who can be tracked down by this list or the GFA ?
If
> >so, hopefully they are in good condition if properly stored. There are
> >companies that can take film and go straight to mini DV tape or DVD, e.g.
> >www.yesvideo.com.au There is usually a setup cost plus a per-reel or
per-
> >foot charge to convert the film to digital format. It is not cheap, but
may
> >be one way of preserving this piece of Australian gliding history for
> future
> >generations, and ensuring that GFA can continue copying it from a stable
> non-
> >degrading digital master.
> >
> >Just looking for a way to preserve this movie if at all possible.
> >
> >Cheers
> >
> >Jason
> >
> >On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 19:11:09 +0800, Owen Jones wrote
> > > Re Zulu Romeo, Good Start
> > >
> > > Nick
> > >
> > > I have a copy that has only been played three times. You are more
than
> > > welcome to borrow it and copy it.
> > >
> > > Owen Jones
> > > WAGA
> > >
> > > Whilst I am in cyber space, has anyone ever listed the gliding
> > > museums etc worth visting in Europe? If so does anyone still have a
> > > copy of that posting?
> >
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