If we want to be pedantic both "AND" and "OR" can be ambiguous, since the separation will almost always comprise of both horizontal and vertical components. Probably the best way would be to re-write the rule to state something like "maintain 200ft separation from other aircraft in all directions"
I admit that I may have missed the point that you were opening a seperate thread regarding the legal aspects of the way in which the rules are written. However I make no apologies for wanting to maintain the focus on the the subject of training and ensuring all pilots that we share the sky with know the rules and fly within them! John Parncutt -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Ken Dawber Sent: Saturday, 18 June 2005 9:52 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] 200 feet separation rule The rule is not ambiguous. It states something quite different to what is intended. The use of the word AND states that we must have both a 200 ft horizontal as well as a 200ft vertical separation when in fact we are only required to have one or the other.. This list was not long ago discussing a court case from here in Victoria where a Gliding club (I think it was Mt Beauty Gliding Club) was held liable for full damages even though some badly written Victorian Legislation was intended to stop this from occurring. The judge seemed to know that the law was intended not to be taken in the way he interpreted it but it was written in way he interpreted it.. Maybe this has been overturned or the law changed since we last talked about it but if not, then due to this silly interpretation, all Victorian gliding clubs (and probably power planes) are liable to full damages in accidents in joy flights which return to the same field as they started from. That is, due to an interpretation of a journey having to go from one point to a different point. I can't remember the actual words from this court case but I'm sure someone on this list can post them to show how these things can have disastrous effects. To say this serves no purpose is not to understand how important these things can be. My email right from the first sentence made it clear that I was referring to possible problems with the law courts. I also changed the Subject as it was a change of subject. Ken Dawber John Parncutt wrote: >It does not matter whether it is "and" or "or" It is quite clear what the >intent of this regulation is, and that is the maintainance of 200ft >seperation between sailplanes IN ANY Direction. To make some argument of >ambiguity when the alternate understanding is clearly a nonsense serves no >purpose to this discusion. > > >Unfortunately, its not always the intent of a rule that is >taken when a >rule is looked at in a court of law. What the rule actually >says is >often given more weight. > >With the current separation rule as shown below, ie. "200 feet >vertically AND horizontally" then we glider pilots are >required never to >fly at the same height as another aircraft, regardless of >horizontal >separation!!!! > >Once one aircraft is up in the air, no other aircraft can >get higher >than that aircraft without breaking this rule!! > >Shouldn't that 'and' be an 'or'. We only need to be >separated by the >vertical separation OR the horizontal separation, not by both. > >Regards > >Ken Dawber > > > >>Christopher H Thorpe wrote: >> >> >> >>>Mike's comment is correct and remains so. GFA Operational Regulations - >>>Section 9.22 states:- >>> >>>"A sailplane shall not be flown so close to another aircraft as to >>>create a >>>collision hazard. GFA requires that a separation from other >>>sailplanes, and >>>tug aircraft towing sailplanes, of at least 200 feet vertically and >>>horizontally be maintained." >>> >>> > > >_______________________________________________ >Aus-soaring mailing list >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >To check or change subscription details, visit: >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > >_______________________________________________ >Aus-soaring mailing list >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >To check or change subscription details, visit: >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
