Very evangelistic.
Next sermon ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Nowak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Controversial - a bit
I totally agree with the claims that FLARM is NOT perfect. Since that has
been agreed upon I suggest that we strip all FLARM units from all gliders
and ban them. Ban things that are not perfect. But hey, lets not stop
there. Let's ban radios as well. Since a radio's battery can go flat and
fuses can blow they're not perfect. What about harnesses. The sun can
deteriate them and stitching can come loose so they're useless as well.
But there's more! Parachutes don't always work so why bother using them at
all. For that matter why bother with DI's? You may not pick up everthing
all the time anyway.
I am a low hours pilot with only one comp under my belt and fly a DDSC. I
learn't to fly without FLARM but shortly there after it was adopted fully
by my club. Since then I don't like to fly without it. No it's not
perfect, no one has ever claimed that but guess what. Unlike some others
on this list my eyes are not perfect either. FLARM will never be
justified in some minds as we will never now how many lives will be saved.
It's only the accidents that people hear about. My first comp (Easter
Comps Chinchilla 06) had full FLARM attendence and it sure helped in my
opinion. I have some stories of when it HAS worked but we seem to be
only talking about it's limitations here so I won't bother.
But anyway, what would I know? Because I use FLARM, according to some I
can push the safety envelope a lot more and I no longer need to look
outside the cockpit. I guess I will have a lot to answer for someday.
Chad Nowak
From: "Peter Creswick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Peter Creswick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Discussion of
issues relating to Soaring in
Australia."<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in
Australia."<aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Controversial - a bit
Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 17:28:33 +1100
This incident seems to be shaping up as a classic example of the real
problems with the rampant adoption of technology for the sake of
technology in general, FLARM in this particular case, but recent incidents
with TCAS in Europe and Brazil are also illustrative, to mention but a
few.
Those who rave about the upsides and demand mandatory adoption of such
systems whilst ignoring, down playing, or even straight out denying the
limitations and downsides, will have a lot to answer for someday.
In this case, what if they had collided, and the recorded data survived,
what would the report have said ? Pretty academic really, since GFA
reports are never published.
For my money, situational awareness is the precursor to see and avoid,
with FLARM et al a very distant third. If you still had position
reporting, each of the four pilots here would have "known" that there were
three others out there. If any one of them can only see two others, they
should "search" for the third. But that was not the case, they were all
apparently blissfully, but erroneously, confident that they were
"situation aware". They had been fooled by their own "faith" in
technology, and as a result, there were very nearly only two, and possibly
a couple of funerals to attend.
How long before it happens ?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kittel, Stephen W (ETSA)"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues relating to
Soaring in Australia." <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 4:11 PM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] Controversial - a bit
Well, they probably both did have indication of a threat ahead (though
at 200kts only for about 10 seconds).
BUT as Luke indicated, he was thinking about the other two (known)
aircraft he was with (and I probably would have been too).
The oncoming pilot, we won't know what they were thinking/doing, but
it's quite conceivable that they were fully aware of a "threat" ahead
and were happy they were clear of the one or two gliders that they saw.
Luke being the unspotted third!
Regards
SWK
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Cole
I didn't mean to be sarcastic. Sorry. Presuming that the
oncoming glider had the Flarm turned on, I just can't see how
the two pilots did not both have a earlier 'red led' warning
in *front* of them at their height.
Michael
> Michael Cole was being sarcastic as all the gliders at the
comps had
> Flarms.
>
> >
> > Michael Cole (Neonatology) wrote:
> >> Wouldn't it have been wonderful if he had had a Flarm fitted !!
> >>
> >> He probably would have been alerted to one or more
gliders in front
> >> of him.
> >>
> >> Michael
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