Thanks Macca.
It is certainly very difficult to get a mixed message here: Sullenberger makes
his viewpoint crystal clear.
Talking about mixed messages, I was earlier trying to make some sense out of
the last bit of the transcript from the flight without much luck. However one
of the other vids on YouTube made it quite clear that the 3 pilots had
displays, each fed with their own individual pitot input, and of course as a
result, each pilot was getting DIFFERENT information. End of MY confusion,
whilst they were discussing THEIR confusion. Apparently one pilot (at least),
ended up with a correct set of inputs. Anybody know who this was?
According to Lindsay Holmwood "Computer Geek and Software Manager at
Bulletproof Networks"), it would seem that elsewhere Sullenberger has talked
about Systems and Man/Machine interface, and is quoted by Holmwood as saying
"If you look at the human factors alone, then you're missing half or two-thirds
of the total system failure."
Does anybody on this forum want to make comment on this?
As an aside "TOCA" appeared in the transcript. This is what the flight computer
was showing shortly before the fatal impact. If you want to know what it means
here it is; Take Off Go Around.(???? Yeah, not in the least helpful.)
Can anybody update me on the current status of the criminal proceedings,
brought by the French Government against Air France, and Airbus?
Here is a last question to the members of this forum. I have no understanding
of the capabilities of the Airbus instrumentation. However it would seem that
there is a instrument that displays the pitch angle of the aircraft to the
pilots: The Captain said he was in a 10 degree attitude just prior to impact.
We all know that pitch angle (angle of attack), and stall are intimately
related. So if the aircraft was stalled at 38,000' or so, this onboard
instrument would be indicating the fact, and the pilot should have reacted and
taken the appropriate (quite routine), action to correct the situation.
I would be interested to know the height loss figures for recovery from a
straight ahead stall for this aircraft. Can anybody provide this information?
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Ian Mc Phee
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2013 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air France A330 Flight 447
Also is an interview with sullenberger on US TV channel on YouTube re air
France flight 447. Initially he sits in an Airbus simulator explaining how it
happened with individual side sticks. He then sits in a Boeing simulator with
reporter and explains with the Boeing it could not happen as the other pilot
would have the control column in his lap and realise something is really wrong
with control position.
As Norm Sanders said on the Andrew Bolt report on channel 10. "If it ain't
Boeing I ain't going".
Ian m
On 13/05/2013 6:09 PM, <gstev...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Hi All,
A rather dark and depressing - it should never have happened - event, from
which obviously lessons have been learnt: Pity about the cost in human lives!
I didn't see the TV program that Ross refers to, so maybe some of what I
mention below, may have been touched on.
Whilst it is a bit off-topic, there is another absolutely fascinating side
to this story that involved the search and recovery of wreckage from the crash,
and in particular the 'black-boxes" - flight data recorder, and cockpit voice
recorder - from an ocean depth of around 10,000'. If you are the slightest bit
interested, Google "Flight 447" and go on from there.
Whilst the information on the web just gives you the dry facts, you can be
quite certain that there must have been a huge amount of high drama going on
(in many places), over the search period and beyond. The search itself spanned
the period 31 May 2009 - 2 May 2011.
Other related threads include the Technical Investigation, which concluded
on the 5 May 2012, and a Criminal Investigation that commenced on 5 June 2009.
Whilst initially totally routine, preliminary manslaughter charges were laid in
March 2011 firstly against Airbus and the next day against Air France. As of
13 May 2013, The NY Daily news stated "......court battle continues", referring
to Air France.
Like many true stories, you can be certain that the stories here leave
fiction for dead! Would make at least one great movie for sure.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Neumann
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Air France A330 Flight 447
Thanks Mike. I was also aware of this information from both this
source, and from another which I've been unable to rediscover.
I've tried to keep up with the AF 447 disaster information flow from day
one. It is a fascinating jigsaw which reveals a whole series of events which
conspired to bring about the tragic final result.
The mistakes made by the pilot(s) - in particular Bonin - are the easiest
ones to attack. However there were other factors involved which are outside of
the charter for discussion on this list - equipment failure, weather, darkness,
absence of the captain from the cockpit through a zone of known bad weather,
pilot training and experience and the aircraft design philosophy itself. It
will probably discussed and argued for a very long time to come.
Terry N
On 13/05/2013 10:57 AM, Mike Borgelt wrote:
I thought I had seen something like this in relation to AF447
The guy flying was Cedric Bonin
From pprune:
10th Dec 2011, 04:06 #711 (permalink)
ChrisJ800
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 107
Bonin experience from 3rd interim report, anyone have more details?
Private Pilot’s License issued in 2000
ATPL theory in 2000
Professional pilot’s license issued in 2001
Multi-engine instrument type rating issued in 2001
Glider pilot’s license issued in 2001
Following his selection by Air France, pilot training course at the
Amaury de la Grange
piloting school in Merville from October 2003
A320 type rating issued in 2004 (within Air France). End of line
training and pilot in
command for first time in September 2004
ATPL License issued on 3 August 2007
Additional A340 type rating issued in February 2008 (with Air France).
End of LOFT and
pilot in command for first time in June 2008
Additional A330 type rating and LOFT in December 2008
Bolding mine.
Mike
Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
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