It’s trivial to provide backup power to any vario that has a relatively low power requirement.
I’ve recently done this with a V3 as a backup for a V7 - I like having an identical configuration so that if I have to switch over, it sounds the same and responds the same. I use 8 AA batteries in a pack (cheap from JayCar) and a simple toggle switch to select power source. This gives me more than enough power for a complete flight. > On 28 Apr 2015, at 17:11 , james dutschke <james.m.dutsc...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So in the interest of closing a loop to a question and generating solutions. > > It seems there is a statistically relevant high incidence of power/vario > failures at national and state competitions. Despite Murphy being a "catch > all" easy fix, Its most likely that he isn't soley to blame in any > circumstance. I'm going to go right out there and presume that people don't > deliberately set up equipment to fail before a competition, therefore I can > only conclude that there must be some sort of cheating, nobbling or tampering > with opposing pilots equipment at a state level plus competition is going on > to explain this statistical anomaly. I jest :-) . Kudos if you get the > relevance of the attached photo (second best movie of all time behind Topgun > FWIW) > > > Other failure modes that have been specifically listed involve static system > blockages and power failures. > > Ill start by saying the backup power feature on the Bxxx series varios is > absolutely brilliant and cant believe this isn't universally copied by all > manufacturers. Easy fix to one of the issues. Ill join in singing a B700's > praises and say it's easily the best vario i've ever used. > > For the other mode of failure that I have listed as being specifically > mentioned is there anyone with a backup TE//static system fitted to their > glider? Given this constitutes a significant portion of notified failures > then on my next glider Im going to have a look at coming up with a system to > mitigate against this form of failure that will kill any conventional vario, > regardless of backup power availability. > > As far as a backup against this short of a dual, switchable TE/Static > solution the Colibri 2 does an amazing job as a backup (with audio) vario. > I'm unsure weather this device has a GPS based, pseudo inertial compensation > for changes in speed (if not then it should be!) however it is surprisingly > sensitive, often beating my electric vario to a sensible average//climb > indication. > > With regard to the vario failure = outlanding = crash scenario like > everything in aviation it is a matter of risk mitigation. I agree, a failure > of a primary soaring instrument increases the probability of outlanding > however this has no impact on the consequence (Risk = probability x > consequence). And so long as the outlanding is properly prepared with > sufficient planing, thought and contingency availability then as Matty > Scutter points out the probability of damage can be mitigated as near as is > possible to zero. > > In a similar theme a pilot flying an aircraft sans audio vario does not make > a default dangerous combination. That can be mitigated against with a proper > scan, of which the mech vario should be low priority. Personally I believe > the greater probability of a mid air comes from an aircraft not established > in a gaggle. Stating the obvious but it's not the one you can see which poses > the risk, hence when in a gaggle you can't just watch the aircraft around > you. I'd even put it out there that at times in gaggles, your brain would be > working so hard with the visual inputs it probably isn't registering the > audio input anyway. This is the crux of what makes gliding so much more > dangerous, a group of pilots, who haven't briefed (formation type) or > established an agreed deconfliction plan in most cases, all flying within > close proximity. Who is doing the lookout or clearing the flightpath for the > "formation" if everyone is busy avoiding everybody? > > Without wanting to open a can of worms but are we actually obliged to adhere > to the minimum traffic separation standards set out in the VFR? Do aircraft > operating under the GFA have a formal exemption? Just like the VFR separation > standards for cloud (based on an IFR aircraft appearing and there being > sufficient time for the "see and avoid" principal, relevant to both parties, > to save the day, which treats the probability, not the outcome. I assume this > is why the <3000' AMSL or <1000agl exemption is there as there shouldn't be > aircraft operating IMC at these altitudes. > > I think the point that Adam was eluding to was that a simple panel (ASI, ALT, > 1x Vario, Radio, Flight computer) maximises time spent outside, by reducing > the time required to read and interpret multiple gauges. Plus it is extremely > elegant, makes the plumbing and wiring super simple etc etc. Having spent > alot of time flying aircraft where the actual flying of the aircraft was > almost a secondary role, I will say a simple user interface, with the > required information being available quickly and clearly from an unambiguous > source is of up-most importance. Imagine how good a flight certified set of > Google type glasses with all that data being displayed without ever looking > inside the cockpit would be!! > > Yours well and truly from cheap seats of a lapsed membership and no more > glider to fly, > > James. > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Richard Frawley <rjfraw...@gmail.com > <mailto:rjfraw...@gmail.com>> wrote: > Had powerfail in club dg1000 in state comp. > > Used wintervario to complete task > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 20:07, aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net> wrote: > > > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > > aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: varios, redundancy (James Dutschke) > > 2. Re: varios, redundancy (pam) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:55:08 +1000 > > From: James Dutschke <james.m.dutsc...@gmail.com > > <mailto:james.m.dutsc...@gmail.com>> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > Message-ID: <1d2e87b2-87ae-4d90-8f72-e3ab130dc...@gmail.com > > <mailto:1d2e87b2-87ae-4d90-8f72-e3ab130dc...@gmail.com>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Straw poll. > > > > Has anyone, had a vario failure. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On 27 Apr 2015, at 19:14, Nick Gilbert <cirru...@gmail.com > >> <mailto:cirru...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >> > >> Surely a backup electric vario is a more useful backup than a mechanical? > >> With its own emergency battery you get a backup audio and averager as well > >> as the needle. With all the stress that goes with a power failure having > >> to stare at the instrument would make things worse. > >> > >> Nick > >> > >> > >>> On 27 Apr 2015, at 5:41 pm, Peter Champness <plchampn...@gmail.com > >>> <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com>> wrote: > >>> > >>> I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. > >>> > >>> I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had wasted > >>> money on the Winter Vario. > >>> > >>> However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is > >>> good insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical > >>> failure. > >>> > >>> No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it > >>> difficult. > >>> > >>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt > >>>> <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > >>>> <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>> wrote: > >>>> At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > >>>> > >>>> There???s no need for a winter backup now > >>>> > >>>> Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. Adam's > >>>> advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. > >>>> > >>>> The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a > >>>> motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the > >>>> single vario fails. > >>>> > >>>> Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the > >>>> Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > >>>> > >>>> For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding > >>>> with its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider > >>>> or yourself over lack of a backup. > >>>> > >>>> If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with > >>>> single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for > >>>> good reason. > >>>> > >>>> A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. > >>>> Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have > >>>> failed is NOT when you've had another failure. > >>>> > >>>> The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will > >>>> likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto > >>>> (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in > >>>> circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would > >>>> get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). > >>>> The two varios may show slightly different information without changing > >>>> modes which can be useful. > >>>> > >>>> We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , > >>>> etc etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is > >>>> tempting fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called > >>>> "the innate cussedness of inanimate matter". > >>>> > >>>> When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the > >>>> Winter doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be > >>>> sharing thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross > >>>> country you would find you would miss the averager. > >>>> > >>>> If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own independent > >>>> backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be fused > >>>> properly so that the radio for example developing an internal short > >>>> doesn't take out the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because > >>>> of this or similar , are you going to simply flip the switch to battery > >>>> 2 and take out *its* fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. > >>>> > >>>> If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in > >>>> touch and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you > >>>> need it. > >>>> > >>>> Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> ____________________________________ > >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >>>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > >>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > >>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > >>>> instrumentation since 1978 > >>>> www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> > >>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >>>> <tel:%2B61-7-4635%205784> > >>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >>>> <tel:%2B61-42835%205784> > >>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >>>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >>> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >> <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > >> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/4d47754f/attachment.html > > > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/4d47754f/attachment.html>> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:07:48 +1000 > > From: "pam" <p...@kurstjens.com <mailto:p...@kurstjens.com>> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > > <aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > Message-ID: <003201d080d2$03e9b600$0bbd2200$@kurstjens.com > > <http://kurstjens.com/>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > YES in the Nationals. It felt like the wings had fallen off. I had no > > backup?.. > > > > > > > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net> > > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net>] On Behalf Of James > > Dutschke > > Sent: Monday, 27 April 2015 7:55 PM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > > > > > > > Straw poll. > > > > > > > > Has anyone, had a vario failure. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 19:14, Nick Gilbert <cirru...@gmail.com > > <mailto:cirru...@gmail.com> <mailto:cirru...@gmail.com > > <mailto:cirru...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > Surely a backup electric vario is a more useful backup than a mechanical? > > With its own emergency battery you get a backup audio and averager as well > > as the needle. With all the stress that goes with a power failure having to > > stare at the instrument would make things worse. > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 5:41 pm, Peter Champness <plchampn...@gmail.com > > <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com> <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com > > <mailto:plchampn...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. > > > > > > > > I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had wasted > > money on the Winter Vario. > > > > > > > > However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is good > > insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical failure. > > > > > > > > No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it > > difficult. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt > > <mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com> > > <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com > > <mailto:mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com>> > wrote: > > > > At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > > > > There???s no need for a winter backup now > > > > Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. Adam's > > advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. > > > > The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a > > motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the > > single vario fails. > > > > Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the > > Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > > > > For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding with > > its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or > > yourself over lack of a backup. > > > > If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with > > single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for > > good reason. > > > > A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. > > Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have failed > > is NOT when you've had another failure. > > > > The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will > > likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto > > (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in > > circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would > > get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The > > two varios may show slightly different information without changing modes > > which can be useful. > > > > We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , etc > > etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is tempting > > fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called "the innate > > cussedness of inanimate matter". > > > > When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the Winter > > doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be sharing > > thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross country you > > would find you would miss the averager. > > > > If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own independent > > backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be fused properly > > so that the radio for example developing an internal short doesn't take out > > the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because of this or similar , > > are you going to simply flip the switch to battery 2 and take out *its* > > fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. > > > > If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in touch > > and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you need it. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > > instrumentation since 1978 > > www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> > > <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/ <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/>> > > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > > <tel:%2B61-7-4635%205784> > > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > > <tel:%2B61-42835%205784> > > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net>> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/989024c2/attachment.html > > > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/989024c2/attachment.html>> > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > > <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 139, Issue 42 > > ******************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net <mailto:Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring> > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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