take your time there Michael, you nearly get answer! figure this out is fun part ;)
On 30 April 2010 02:10, Michael Iv <[email protected]> wrote: > Katopz , looking at MDBuilder I fancy if it is not already implemented > there . I mean you have already there serializing of DAE to MD2 bytearray . > That means that I can , for example convert a bunch of DAE's this way , put > them on a server then pull them into my App thorugh AMF and adding them to > scene on receive after casting to MD2 ? What am I missing here ? (Quite new > to all that formats conversion programming stuff) > > Thank you > > > On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 5:32 AM, katopz <[email protected]> wrote: > >> it's 0% progress there for MDF and i'll start implement on that when i've >> free time >> which mean not so soon ;) so feel free to make it from scratch >> you can use MDZBuilder for guideline there, it's already half way i think >> your job is find the way to externalize class to AMF format and read it >> back >> and more further to pack them in one piece like MDZ is export as SWF that >> contain mesh+texture inside, should look like this for comparison >> >> MDZ = ZIP = [MD2_0, Texture_0, MD2_1, Texture_1,...] >> AWF = SWF = [MDF_0, Texture_0, MDF_1, Texture_1,...] >> MDF = AMF = mesh and/or animation as MD2 which externalize >> >> lol look like i just add another format there ;p >> whatever, it's just quick idea , the format name can be change later >> maybe MDA instead of MDF, bal bla bla, name is another fun part ;D >> >> fyi claus already did swf export here >> http://wiki.github.com/claus/as3swf/ >> good news is after this format done, it's all native flash things >> which mean you can use this for other engine in future that use >> flash native 3d too (if we do it right way, keep balance with native) >> except animation part that's still need extra class to handle ;) >> >> all this running fine in my head, so if you want to help just do it, >> here's all i got now ;) >> >> >> On 29 April 2010 01:45, Michael Iv <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Katopz 3.4 looks interesting , where it stands currently ? What help do >>> you need ? >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 9:27 PM, katopz <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> fyi in case someone miss my blog ;) >>>> >>>> >>>> http://sleepydesign.blogspot.com/2010/03/away3dlite-md2-and-mdz-builder-from-dae.html >>>> >>>> and it's just beginning, you can expect a lot more to come eg. >>>> >>>> 1. MDJ = MD2 + textures in JSON format , nothing to be excite it's just >>>> store mesh and texture path >>>> 2. MDJBulder = build MDJ just like MDZ but as JSON >>>> 3. MDF = MD2 that build as AMF format, expect 0 parse time compressed >>>> binary format >>>> 4. MDFBuilder come along obviously! >>>> >>>> 1, 2 is already in svn (lite builder) and use in real project for custom >>>> character and save it back >>>> some clean up need there >>>> >>>> 3, 4 is in my head anyone want to help me on MDF things feel free to be >>>> my guest ;) >>>> trust me it's fun! ;D >>>> >>>> cheers! >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29 April 2010 01:07, Ken Railey <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I am not sure I fully understand what you are proposing. Collada is >>>>> pretty explicitly XML, and it is the step of recursively walking the XML >>>>> and >>>>> building all of the associated away3d structures that takes the most time. >>>>> >>>>> If you are suggesting loading and storing that XML in an initial byte >>>>> array, that won't significantly alter anything since it still has to >>>>> become >>>>> XML at some point. >>>>> >>>>> If you are suggesting converting the Collada to some intermediate >>>>> binary format, then parsing *that* at runtime, that could potentially be >>>>> fast. In this case we are no longer loading a Collada at all, but some >>>>> specific one-off format though. >>>>> >>>>> I thought I saw some discussion on this list about an away3d specific >>>>> model format, but I haven't had a chance to check it out. One potential >>>>> approach could be to make that format parse really quickly, and just >>>>> convert >>>>> Collada (or other) meshes to that for deployment I suppose. >>>>> >>>>> -Ken >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Michael Iv <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That is a very useful info you fetched here . So let me ask you >>>>>> something: if the parser is going to read from bytearray , do you think >>>>>> the >>>>>> parse time would get shorter? Or it can't read from bytearray at all and >>>>>> in >>>>>> this case we have to deserialize the data as DAE and then parse , and >>>>>> then >>>>>> nothing changes? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Ken Railey <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Well I can only speak for my own projects, but in my case with a >>>>>>> large animated Collada file the loading is measured in ms, while the >>>>>>> parsing >>>>>>> is measured in seconds (sometimes approaching 10, depending on the mesh >>>>>>> complexity). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am also interested in any techniques anyone has found to speed up >>>>>>> the parsing step, particularly in the animated Collada case. It seems >>>>>>> like >>>>>>> exporting the model directly to as3 using something like Prefab would >>>>>>> be a >>>>>>> significant win, but I don't believe that animations are supported >>>>>>> currently. At least, they weren't the last time I attempted to test it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -Ken >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 7:50 AM, Michael Iv >>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thinking of what you have just said my question is how much of those >>>>>>>> 3 seconds is loading time vs actual parsing(supposing that you load >>>>>>>> your >>>>>>>> models) ? Because if i bring in serialized model file with bytearray , >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> still needs to get parsed , but if the loading part is swift we can >>>>>>>> spare >>>>>>>> more time on the whole routine . >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:29 PM, tarwin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you've got animation in there you're up against a whole other >>>>>>>>> problem. One thing I've been looking (actively working on) at is >>>>>>>>> loading one Collada animation and substituting Vertex data (just a >>>>>>>>> quick replace in the XML) for the model I want, then using a hack >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> Katopz' MD2Buidler creating AnimatedMeshs out of it. The two >>>>>>>>> slowest >>>>>>>>> parts here are the parsing of the Collada and then the creation of >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> AnimatedMesh, but I think (and this is where I'm still unsure) >>>>>>>>> creating some kind of pre-parsed Collada format might help a lot >>>>>>>>> here. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The idea is to build a serialized version of the Collada object >>>>>>>>> (Away3D object) that I can build into a Collada super quick, rather >>>>>>>>> than building it directly from the XML which is super slow (mostly >>>>>>>>> because XML reading is slow). If you have the serialized Collada >>>>>>>>> object in memory already hopefully you could just replace parts of >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> (vertex data) and have it done super quick. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It currently takes over 3 seconds to process a Collada and then >>>>>>>>> create >>>>>>>>> an AnimatedMesh (1500 verts, lots of bones and 5 seconds of >>>>>>>>> animation) >>>>>>>>> but I'm guessing this could be cut down quite considerably if you >>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>> the cached Collada (maybe 1 second which could then be hidden with >>>>>>>>> some kind of transition). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thoughts anyone? How would YOU hold Collada info to create one >>>>>>>>> quickly, but also minimize file size? How about just creating a >>>>>>>>> Class >>>>>>>>> wihich has a bunch of lines like: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> // not working code, just a quick idea !! >>>>>>>>> c = new Collada(); >>>>>>>>> m = collada.addMesh(Vector(123,43,.34,-34,34,-343)); >>>>>>>>> m.addBones(Vector(123,43,.34,-34,34,-343)); >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Michael Ivanov ,Programmer >>>>>>>> Neurotech Solutions Ltd. >>>>>>>> Flex|Air |3D|Unity| >>>>>>>> www.neurotechresearch.com >>>>>>>> Tel:054-4962254 >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Michael Ivanov ,Programmer >>>>>> Neurotech Solutions Ltd. >>>>>> Flex|Air |3D|Unity| >>>>>> www.neurotechresearch.com >>>>>> Tel:054-4962254 >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Regards >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>>> katopz, http://sleepydesign.com >>>> Away3D and JigLibFlash Developer Team >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Michael Ivanov ,Programmer >>> Neurotech Solutions Ltd. >>> Flex|Air |3D|Unity| >>> www.neurotechresearch.com >>> Tel:054-4962254 >>> [email protected] >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Regards >> ----------------------------------------------------------- >> katopz, http://sleepydesign.com >> Away3D and JigLibFlash Developer Team >> > > > > -- > Michael Ivanov ,Programmer > Neurotech Solutions Ltd. > Flex|Air |3D|Unity| > www.neurotechresearch.com > Tel:054-4962254 > [email protected] > [email protected] > > -- Regards ----------------------------------------------------------- katopz, http://sleepydesign.com Away3D and JigLibFlash Developer Team
