Re: [axis2] Spring Support

Wed, 10 May 2006 04:36:31 -0700

As an outsider, I worry about any product that does not have a good history of upward compatibility. Removing a feature is a big step that has a long-term effect on the product's reputation.
It raises the question "If I commit to this product and use any of its features, will I be left out in the cold in future releases or be forced to do a major architectural change to stay with the flow of new releases?" 


If you think that Spring is an old and obsolete framework that has not 
been used for many years and most of your intended users have long since 
abandoned it, then you can consider not supporting it. People will not 
hold this against you.



Upwards compatibility and support for the existing user base is 
important. Dropping support for a feature is a negative for any product. 
One can and should debate the importance of each feature but a product's 
history of upwards compatibility is a big deal for new adopters.


Ron


Eran Chinthaka wrote:

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the help you offered on documentation and Spring.

BTW, I don't think a feature should be supported in Axis2 simply its
supported in Axis 1.x or XFire. Except for that part I agree with your
mail.

Thanks,
Chinthaka

robert lazarski wrote:

  

"Any ideas how we can bundle all these parts and any volunteers for
Spring implementation ?"

Got it started, I know spring well, and there some deeper issues that
need to be handled that for someone who doesn't know spring, will
probably miss. The MessageReciever to support spring is easy - it just
requires that you know what you're doing. I'm basing this work off of
paul fremantle's he posted last july, though he was messing with the
classloader and I think that can and should be avoided.  It just so
happens I've been really busy on something else these last few days, but
that'll pass any day now and I should be ready for a commit defintely by
the end of the week. I participate on the spring lists and I should be
able to get some feedback.

Oh and search the list for axis2 and spring - axis 1.x already supports
spring. AXIS2-427 got marked as won't fix - asking for a jax-rpc class
to use spring. I replied about two weeks ago to a question here:

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=114616468925896&w=2
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=114616468925896&w=2>

There are other posts on the list. I personally already use spring in
axis2 via a BeanFactory, but too much for an average spring user to confgi

XFIre supports spring, Axis 1.x support it, and axis2 shoud too. I'm not
a spring zealot, but I do believe its easy enough to support it.

Bottom line is I've started the spring work, and I'm +1 on putting the
spring.jar and perhaps some of the databinding jars outside the std distro.

BTW, I know there are other priorities such as documenting a POJO, and
since I'm a native english speaker I can help document it once I got a
few cycles - maybe this weekend.

Robert
http://www.braziloutsource.com/

 
On 5/10/06, *Eran Chinthaka* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

    Hi,

    I also agree with Tom. I do not want to have Spring in the core or in
    any core parts.

    BUT, even though you say it < 1%, I'd say its more than 70% at least
    here in Germany. I met lot of people here who are asking for Spring
    support, even though they are silent in mailing list. Spring, for some
    reason, is hot here.

    I even worry about bundling most of the data binding jars with our war
    dist. Don't u all complain about it. Jaxme itself has four jars which
    amounts to 1MB. I think we need to have a policy on data binding
    frameworks as well.

    So this leads us to think about how we can release a core part and let
    people extend it to be used with Spring or to let them use a different
    db framework that we support.

    Any ideas how we can bundle all these parts and any volunteers for
    Spring implementation ?

    -- Chinthaka



    Tom Jordahl wrote:
    > "I know it when I see it" – and Spring is over the line.  J
    >
    >
    >
    > How many Axis2 users will use Spring? Hard to say, but I am
    betting that
    > <1% of users are using it right now.
    >
    >
    >
    > I am happy to have 'extra' code in axis2.jar that supports lots of
    other
    > technologies.  That isn't a steep price to pay.  But if I am using the
    > 'basics' – SOAP processing, the Axis Data Binding, WSDL generation,
    > *maybe* WS-Addressing – I should have a small list of jars that I
    need
    > to run (whether the list is small right now is probably another
    discussion).
    >
    >
    >
    > Doesn't that sound right?
    >
    >
    >
    > P.S. I am only dimly aware of Spring, I don't even know what it
    really
    > does without a Google search, so I have nothing against Spring itself.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Tom Jordahl
    >
    > Adobe ColdFusion Team
    >
    >
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >
    > *From:* robert lazarski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>]
    > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 09, 2006 12:16 PM
    > *To:* axis-dev@ws.apache.org <mailto:axis-dev@ws.apache.org>
    > *Subject:* Re: [axis2] Spring Support
    >
    >
    >
    > Sure, I understand - that's why I proposed bringing back the
    extensions
    > directory. The problem is, however, where do you draw the line?
    >
    > Robert
    > http://www.braziloutsource.com/
    >
    > On 5/9/06, *Tom Jordahl* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >
    > I don't use Spring, so don't make me carry the spring jar file around
    > with Axis2 when I don't use it…
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    >
    > Tom Jordahl
    >
    > Adobe ColdFusion Team
    >
    >
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > *From:* Rajith Attapattu [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>]
    > *Sent:* Monday, May 08, 2006 11:48 AM
    > *To:* axis-dev@ws.apache.org <mailto:axis-dev@ws.apache.org>
    <mailto:axis-dev@ws.apache.org <mailto:axis-dev@ws.apache.org>>
    > *Subject:* Re: [axis2] Spring Support
    >
    >
    >
    > Robert,
    >
    > Ok, good then as a starting point we can use your code base as you
    have
    > already done some work on pauls stuff.
    > Yes the 2MB depency does concerns me as well. But it looks like a
    lot of
    > developers are using spring so it might not be that much of an issue
    > considering the fanfare we see out there for spring.
    >
    > How about pulling put the common code and refactoring the Message
    > Receivers? or you want to wait till u check in the stuff and then look
    > at it?
    >
    > I am not sure about Data binding as well and hopefuly somebody
    will fill
    > in the gap here.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Rajith
    >
    > On 5/8/06, *robert lazarski* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >
    > I've been using Spring with axis2 since .92, although in a way not
    > everybody seems to like.
    >
    > I'm working a lot on adding Spring support via a Message Reciever,
    but
    > wanted to wait till post 1.0 . . I've mostly got it working. I'm
    basing
    > this work of of paul's work he did last july though some things cleary
    > won't work today as they were coded back then. I'm hoping to have
    > something ready to commit this week, of course after discussions
    on the
    > list. I still need to do the junit tests and work out how spring does
    > annotations.
    >
    > This is good time to lay out the issues:
    >
    > 1) Spring is licensed under apache 2.0 .
    > 2) Its yet another dependancy, the main spring.jar being about 2 megs.
    > 3) We had an extensions directory, and this may be a good time to
    bring
    > it back.
    > 4) I'm unsure how to integrate a spring message reciever with
    > databinding. Databinding at least for me is a critical factor.
    >
    >
    > Robert
    >
    >
    >
    > On 5/8/06, *Rajith Attapattu* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >
    > Dims,
    >
    > Thats true, we cannot and should not try to satisfy everybody.
    > Most people are looking for a magic wand that will create there code
    > with minimum effort as possible.
    >
    > Reading the thread on TSS I was sad to see that most people have
    missed
    > the boat about Web Services.
    >
    > These people expect nothing but to expose their **objects** as Web
    > Services using some framework with minimum effort as possible.
    > Thats as far as they are willing to go with Web Services.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    >
    > Rajith
    >
    >
    >
    > On 5/8/06, *Davanum Srinivas* < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >
    > Sure.
    >
    > - Beware of people with hidden agendas. You can never please everyone.
    > - Once you meet the objective criteria (say "add spring support"),
    you
    > will hear either ("it's not easy" or "it's complicated" in other words
    > "It does not meet my unspecified standards that are in my
    > head"-kind-of subjective criteria.
    >
    > thanks,
    > dims
    >
    > On 5/8/06, Rajith Attapattu < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Looking at the thread on TSS, it looks like some people are hell
    bent on
    >> having spring support.
    >>
    >> Paul already has some code (sandbox) attached to the jira  AXIS2-272
    >> I looked at them and it does provide a nice way of exposing
    spring beans as
    >> Web Services via a MessageReceiver
    >>
    >> I agree with Paul that there is some common code that could be
    refactored
    >> out in the message reciver classes.
    >>
    >> Shall we work on this code base and provide the support these
    people are
    >> asking for??
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >>
    >> Rajith
    >>
    >
    >
    > --
    > Davanum Srinivas : http://wso2.com/blogs/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >






    




  






















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