No. I don't think Jonathan is on the wrong track...It's just that we need to understand existing situation better which is always the right thing to do. What i was suggesting was how do we learn from what he have and turn it into what we want it to be.
-- dims On Wed, 12 May 2004 10:30:23 -0700, Yakulis, Ross (Ross) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Exactly, that is why Jonathan Anderson is on the wrong track. He describes what he > currently has to do. The real question is in the long run what is the right way to > do things and push for that and get Axis to migrate in that direction. I > personally still believe that writing wsdl files is for the birds and should be > avoided. Ultimately, only tools should be generating wsdl files, scans for rare > cases. If web services are not easy to create and deploy they are generally not > much better that their predecessors. > > Ross > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:14 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > Let's twist this discussion on its head.... > - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports) > - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis? > (enhancements requests) > > If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis > developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all > discussion is just water under the bridge. > > thanks, > -- dims > > On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for. > > > > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But, it's > > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files have > > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could work > > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no > > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place. > > > > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons are > > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it > > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker. > > > > -Joe > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM > > Subject: RE: Best Practices? > > > > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations > > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web services > > on > > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding > > problem. > > > > > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem: it's > > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and > > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work to > > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many OO > > > developers think this way. > > > > > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with > > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD (with > > a > > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a > > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML binding > > > engine is one of several options available to you. > > > > > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis > > Sosnoski > > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me onto > > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts) on > > the > > > issues over at IBM developerWorks. > > > > > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html > > > > > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's some > > > advice: > > > > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2 > > > > > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using Axis's > > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to > > Castor, > > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We further > > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from our > > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated types. > > > > > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation -> > > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor, extracts > > the > > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the graph's > > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business > > Exceptions > > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)-> > > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java > > business > > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) -> > > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business > > > domain types) > > > > > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the two > > type > > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business > > Domain > > > classes. > > > > > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type > > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us right > > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms. You'll > > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality people > > are > > > trying to SOAP service enable. > > > > > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not a > > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in > > Java: > > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of the > > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard to > > do > > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely > > stupid > > > state right now. > > > > > > -Jon > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate > > everything. > > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to the > > way > > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of > > > interoperability. > > > > > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard" practices, > > just > > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and then > > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this was > > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you can > > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but is > > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write what > > > you can generate? > > > > > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking for > > the > > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to > > create > > > services, we're doing it the "right" way. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice > > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the > > > wsdl. > > > > > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by > > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec. > > > for wsdl!???? > > > > > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!??? > > > > > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!???? > > > > > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand???? > > > > > > Tomi > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: David Cunningham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14 > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files. If > > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is > > your > > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing Java > > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if you > > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will either > > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers > > (.NET, > > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of > > being > > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around). > > > > > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought to > > the > > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to send/receive > > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with > > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire. > > > > > > - david > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Dorner Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods your > > > webservice should offer. > > > > > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your > > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks > > like > > > in0, in1, in2... . > > > > > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl and > > > maybe a testclient. > > > > > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional > > > generated .wsdd files. > > > > > > Hope this helps you > > > > > > Tomi > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > Von: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48 > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Betreff: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis. I've > > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up > > with > > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use > > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for is > > a > > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going about > > > it. > > > > > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an > > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD > > file? > > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string contains > > xml > > > formated text? > > > > > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward them on > > > to me. > > > > > > Any help will be appreciated!!! > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Joe Plautz > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
