Will do! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Davanum Srinivas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: Re: Best Practices?
Well, you can use the wiki to refine the content and then we can integrate it into the documentation itself. Anyone can edit the wiki content. (http://nagoya.apache.org/wiki/apachewiki.cgi?AxisProjectPages) thanks, -- dims On Thu, 13 May 2004 08:47:30 -0500, Joe Plautz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I agree with Andy. Hence, why I started this thread looking for guidance. > > I was sent a good example from Ross on creating a service starting from > classes. If he'd like to share it or I can submit it for some sort of review > in hopes that it can be used in documentation I can do that. He even gave me > the command line switches he uses. If there is someone who has a quick > example of creating a WSDL using a foss type of tool and generating the > underlying code that would be great. Then as a group we could decide the > merits and downfalls of both techniques and present them as a beginers > guide. > > Joe > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Davanum Srinivas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 8:05 AM > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > Next question: Are u willing to help? As u know all committers have day jobs > :) > > thanks, > dims > > On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:43:09 +0100, Andrew Premdas > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > My 2c as a newbie. > > > > No.1 thing for a better Axis - much better documentation!! > > No.2 thing, better ease of use > > > > For a newbie, Web Services and Axis are something of a minefield, through > > which there are no clear marked paths. The docs sell .jws when really all > > its good for is persauding people web services are much easier than they > > actually are ... was going to list other faults of docs but instead ... > > > > How to improve docs: > > > > Provide a number of real world scenarios that clearly illustrate the > > development of production quality web services. Start with something > simple > > and then move on from there. Explain why things are being done in a > certain > > way. > > > > StockQuote, ServiceSendingAttachment, ServiceSendingComplexType ... > > > > Provide examples of different ways of working with Axis and explain their > > merits > > > > jws, interface -> java2wdsl -> wsdl2java, wsdl by hand, wsdl2java, > > > > Explain clearly key web services issues > > xml-oo mismatch, ... > > > > Provide a number of clear paths through these areas, perhaps following a > > format like the java tutorial. > > > > How to improve ease of use: > > > > Improve, or at the very least clearly document the command line interface > > tools - wsdl2java, java2wsdl. Document the ant tasks and provide good > > examples of usage. Provide default log4j configurations inbuilt into the > > command line tools, so if they can't find a properties file on the command > > line they will at least log to the console. Perhaps add a command line > > switch (oh no another one) to set logging level. > > > > None of this is particularly glamorous, but the reason this thread started > > is because much of this doesn't exist and people need clearer guidance > about > > how to get the best out of Axis. > > > > All best > > > > Andy > > > > Andrew Premdas > > Student Systems Developer > > Manchester University > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Davanum Srinivas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > > > Let's twist this discussion on its head.... > > - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports) > > - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis? > > (enhancements requests) > > > > If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis > > developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all > > discussion is just water under the bridge. > > > > thanks, > > -- dims > > > > On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for. > > > > > > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But, > it's > > > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files > > have > > > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could > work > > > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no > > > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place. > > > > > > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons > are > > > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it > > > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker. > > > > > > -Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM > > > Subject: RE: Best Practices? > > > > > > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations > > > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web > > services > > > on > > > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding > > > problem. > > > > > > > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem: > > it's > > > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and > > > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work > to > > > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many > OO > > > > developers think this way. > > > > > > > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with > > > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD > > (with > > > a > > > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a > > > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML > > binding > > > > engine is one of several options available to you. > > > > > > > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis > > > Sosnoski > > > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me > > onto > > > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts) > on > > > the > > > > issues over at IBM developerWorks. > > > > > > > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html > > > > > > > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's > some > > > > advice: > > > > > > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2 > > > > > > > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using > > Axis's > > > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to > > > Castor, > > > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We > > further > > > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from > > our > > > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated > types. > > > > > > > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation -> > > > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor, > extracts > > > the > > > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the > > graph's > > > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business > > > Exceptions > > > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)-> > > > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java > > > business > > > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) -> > > > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business > > > > domain types) > > > > > > > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the > two > > > type > > > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business > > > Domain > > > > classes. > > > > > > > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type > > > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us > > right > > > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms. > > You'll > > > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality > people > > > are > > > > trying to SOAP service enable. > > > > > > > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not > a > > > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in > > > Java: > > > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of > > the > > > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard > > to > > > do > > > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely > > > stupid > > > > state right now. > > > > > > > > -Jon > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Subject: Re: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > > > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate > > > everything. > > > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to > the > > > way > > > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of > > > > interoperability. > > > > > > > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard" > practices, > > > just > > > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and > > then > > > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this > > was > > > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you > > can > > > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but > > is > > > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write > > what > > > > you can generate? > > > > > > > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking > for > > > the > > > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to > > > create > > > > services, we're doing it the "right" way. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM > > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > > > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice > > > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the > > > > wsdl. > > > > > > > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by > > > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec. > > > > for wsdl!???? > > > > > > > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!??? > > > > > > > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!???? > > > > > > > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand???? > > > > > > > > Tomi > > > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > > Von: David Cunningham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14 > > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > > > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files. > > If > > > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is > > > your > > > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing > Java > > > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if > > you > > > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will > > either > > > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers > > > (.NET, > > > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of > > > being > > > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around). > > > > > > > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought > to > > > the > > > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to > > send/receive > > > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with > > > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire. > > > > > > > > - david > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Dorner Thomas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM > > > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' > > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods > > your > > > > webservice should offer. > > > > > > > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your > > > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks > > > like > > > > in0, in1, in2... . > > > > > > > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl > > and > > > > maybe a testclient. > > > > > > > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional > > > > generated .wsdd files. > > > > > > > > Hope this helps you > > > > > > > > Tomi > > > > > > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > > > > Von: Joe Plautz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48 > > > > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Betreff: Best Practices? > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis. > > I've > > > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up > > > with > > > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use > > > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for > > is > > > a > > > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going > > about > > > > it. > > > > > > > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an > > > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD > > > file? > > > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string > contains > > > xml > > > > formated text? > > > > > > > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward > them > > on > > > > to me. > > > > > > > > Any help will be appreciated!!! > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Joe Plautz > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
