Hi Doug, didn't know you over there visiting the islands, have you learned anything new about the family where your father and I connect. I would love someday to visit the lands of my ancestors. I think that it would be very exciting and educational... Mike
On Saturday, December 8, 2012 1:09:59 PM UTC-5, Doug Holmes wrote: > > Hi John, > > I didn't know about the stipend given to unwed mothers to keep the baby. > That was surely a very effective way to prevent many babies from > abandonment. > > I always look carefully at the godparents. Ever since I found a cousin > living in Piedade, Pico from my Leal da Rosa side, way back in 1992 or so > on my first visit there, I really paid attention, because this person's > ancestor was born before the parents married. There was no hint in the > marriage record that he was born illegitimate. But I couldn't locate his > baptism until I found the mother about a year before she married. This was > about 1840, to give you a time frame. The father was listed as unknown, BUT > the father was the godfather in this instance. I don't remember for certain > whether I have ever seen that again, but just in case, I like to identify > the families of the godparents, because more often than not they are uncles > and aunts, as you well know. > > Obrigado, > > Doug da Rocha Holmes > Sacramento, California > Pico Genealogist > 916-550-1618 > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' > From: John Raposo <marr...@yahoo.com <javascript:>> > Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 9:56 am > To: "azo...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>" > <azo...@googlegroups.com<javascript:> > > > > Doug is correct in his explanation and observations. I would add that big > places like Ponta Delgada and Vila Franca, etc, often had convents, with > their lazy Susan wheels. This meant that instead of just abandonning a > child in a tiny rural village where he might not be "found" right away, the > child was immediately (unanymously and with the mother unseen by the > institution) taken in by the foundling home/convent instead of being left > exposed "exposto" to the elements and the mercy of a chance discovery. The > problem is that these convents often did not have enough wet > nurses available to take in all of the babies taken in and the death rate > was even higher for those children than for the ones who were placed, > although the death rate for them was also higher than average. > Although the rate of abandonned children was high in the towns and cities, > it was also alarmingly high in the villages in the 18th to mid 19th > centuries. There are probably two reasons for this: 1- Poverty/too many > mouths to feed and not enough land to produce as much food as needed (When > the government started paying a stipend to the unwed mother for the care > and maintainance of the child, the rate of abandonment dropped dramatically > around 1850); 2- the stigma of giving birth to a child outside of marriage. > In the villages, the identity of the parents of many of these children of > unknown parentage was an open secret. > > *From:* "pi...@dholmes.com <javascript:>" <pi...@dholmes.com<javascript:> > > > *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > *Sent:* Saturday, December 8, 2012 7:56 AM > *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' > > Hi Eileen, > > You are not reading the records correctly. > > Pai = father > Pais = parents (also means country, but not in this case). > > So what you are talking about are children abandoned and the women married > to men are known as the "ama" or wet nurses given the charge of caring for > them. > > These children are called "expostos" or foundlings and if they should live > to adulthood might choose the surname of these foster parents, but not > always, by any means. > > Expostos tend to be greater in larger locations. Check out the volume of > them in a city like Angra where they had separate books for some time > periods. > Same for Ponta Delgada's parishes. > > The reason for this might be, or probably is that they were brought from > outside villages to the main villages or city. > > If the woman was single and kept the child, the record usually reads > "filho/a natural de ..." and then the name of the mother. Often, but not > always the father will be listed as pai incognito, or simply not mentioned. > > Good luck, > > Doug da Rocha Holmes > Sacramento, California > Pico Genealogist > 916-550-1618 > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' > From: "Eileen Leite" <eilee...@seleite.com <javascript:>> > Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 12:03 am > To: <azo...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> > > I have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, > Sao Miguel, in 1811-1818. I see what I think is a high number of > illegitimate births, “Pais incognito” and “(child) natural”, and have some > questions. > > 1. It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito > (father unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named > someone who is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) > Rarely it will say “pais incognito” and (Mother) solteira. If the mother > is single, the format is usually different, and says merely “(Child) of > (Mother), Single” or “(Child) natural of (Mother)” . Does the priest have > a choice in what he writes, or is there a different implication in the > format chosen for the record? > > 2. I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 > records. That is 18%. Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men > other than the father. Removing the babies born to single mothers, 2 in 15 > babies born to married women were not of her husband. This seems really > high to me. Were the husbands away for some reason? Or was there a reason > a woman would not claim her own husband to be the father of the child? > Just wondering what was going on. > > Would anyone know why there were so many illegitimate births? > > Thanks! > > Eileen Leite > Currently seeking Rebellos/Rabellos and de Frias in Povoacao, > And Brandao in Nordeste. > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. Follow the confirmation > directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. Follow the confirmation > directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > > > -- > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > azores+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. Follow the confirmation > directions when they arrive. > For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > > -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
