*This is VERY helpful and I appreciate that you have referenced the sources and combined them all together into one tidy document.*
**** this will be my last POST on this topic **** Somehow, I just can't let this go! * I am completely fascinated. Am I on the only one? I am sure we have we have many descendants from my 13th great grandfather in this google group alone.* Here are my thoughts and questions: *1. Y DNA testing* Now that we have Y DNA testing AND have knowledge of the DIRECT paternal line of my/our mysterious 13th great grandfather ... could some of those gentlemen simply not get tested? Then of course we need to compare those Y DNA results to the OFFICIAL direct paternal descendants of the Count of Benavente? Sounds so simple, but I am sure it isn't. Maybe I am off my rocker. *Is there any special studies out there on this ancestor?* I am thinking something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHG_SBgQWAw Yes, I realize that this is mtDNA and not Y DNA, but you get where I am going with this. *2. What crime did he commit?* *3. Living in such a remote area (Grotas Fundas)* Yes, I totally had the thought it was a rather remote spot to want to live and reading the reference to it aligns to what I was thinking. Hmmmmmm. *4. Which count built a hospital by the name of "Nossa Senhora do Piedade" along the Silver Route on the way to Santiago de Compostela?* This fascinates me, as I have personally done 2 pilgrimages to SdC. In fact, I *might* be going back in November to lead a small group. *5. going to Rome and asking the Pope for forgiveness?* I thought I had read that someone went to Rome to ask the Pope for forgiveness. Has anyone else seen a reference to that? It could just be me misunderstanding the Portuguese, but I'm curious if anyone recalls reading such a thing. *6. Language spoken:* This may appear to be an odd and maybe even a stupid question. If this count came from Spain, would he not be speaking Spanish or whatever the dialect of that area of Spain is? Or would it be normal for people at that time to have spoken Portuguese and Spanish? OR ... were there Spanish speaking people in Sao Miguel who had to then learn to speak Portuguese in the 15th century, BEFORE Spain invaded the Azores? I know odd question, but I am curious. *7. Miguel Figueiredo Corte-Real: Os Descendentes dos Condes de Benavente Radicados in Acores Desde o Seculo XV* Does anyone have a pdf of this book that they can share with me? *8. Spanish Nobility Documents* There is reference in "Genealogia de los Condes y Duques de Benavente" that the Count of Mayorga had a son by the same name and the dates line up to my/our ancestor. *Is there no further mention of this man anywhere else in Spanish documents?* 9. Anyone have *a pdf copy of "Genealogia de los Condes y Duques de Benavente"?* On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:48 AM, 'John Raposo' via Azores Genealogy < azores@googlegroups.com> wrote: > *Jo**ã**o Afonso (de Pimentel) **“**das Grotas Fundas* > *Died 2 Sept 1512* > > NB: this is the work of several people including Rodrigo Rodrigues, Andrew > Rapoza, George Pacheco, Diana cestodio Silva, in addition to those cited. > > NAME: He became known in St. Michael, Açores as "João Afonso das Grotas > Fundas" [Frutuoso]. Frutuoso never gives him the family name Pimentel nor > does he ever make reference to a relationship to the Spanish Counts of > Benevente. This claim is made by his grandson João Afonso, o Moço, of > Faial da Terra, where he died on 16.4.1577. On the cover of his will, in > an old script, it says that the said João Afonso, o Moço descendes from > the Condes de Benavente of Castile. > > > BIOGRAPHY: "The Pimentels and the Resendes families of the island of São > Miguel descended from João Afonso de Pimentel who came with these names in > the last quarter of the 15th century" [*Familias** Antigas da Povoação**]*. > (It was also suggested that he arrive in the middle of the 15th century [James > Guill]. "He settled in the place of Grotas Fundas, on the island of São > Miguel, where he had a large family and house, by which he became > well-known on the island as João Afonso das Grotas Fundas [Frutuoso]." "The > origin of this João Afonso is wrapped in some mystery; nevertheless, his > 5th grandson [through a daughter of João Afonso], Padre Pedro Furtado > Leite, outlined his ancestry in a letter in which he wrote that his > mother was descended from João Afonso who, in turn, was the descendant of > the Counts of Benavente, of Spain. In truth, there are some nobiliaries > that refer to a son of the third Count of Benavente (there is a perfect > coincidence of dates), of the name João Afonso, who left Spain, and > disappears from history. The third Count of Benavente, Alonso de > Pimentel, also known as the Count of Mayorga, was married to Dona Maria de > Quinones y Toledo. The subsequent nobiliaries referred to their son João > Afonso de Pimentel [*Familias*]." No further details are given in *Genealogia > de los Condes y Duques de Benavente* (at the Madrid Library), however. [J. > Guill] This son would have been 60 to 70 years old when João Afonso das > Grotas Fundas made his will, His great-grea-greatr grandson, Father > Belchior Manuel de Resendes, in a letter, says that his 4th grandfather, > João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was the son of a Count and exiled himself to > S. Miguel for having committed a crime in Portugal. > > > "The Pimentels belong to one of the most illustrious families of the > Iberian peninsula and originate in Benavente, where they had a castle at > the juncture of a gigantic triangular territory formed by the lands of > Leon, Asturias, and Galicia and bordered by the rivers Esla and Orbigo [ > *Familias*]." > > One Count built a hospital by the name of Nossa Senhora do Piedade to > benefit the pilgrims traveling the Silver Route on the way to Santiago de > Compostela. The church in Ponta Garça that serves the Grotas Fundas area > where João Afonso was the first settler, was also called Nossa Senhora do > Piedade, thus further suggesting the connection between João Afonso das > Grotas Fundas and the Counts of Benavente. [*Familias*.] > > > > It may be this same João Afonso that is mentioned to have contributed 80 > moios of wheat toward a program to direct fresh water from the land of > Gaspar de Bettancurt to Ponta Delgada because before this time the > residents of that town had to rely on well water (perhaps the town's > population was growing too large to sustain itself on the number of wells > then available) [Alverne]. > > João Afonso das Grotas Fundas was again credited as being the earliest > settler of Grotas Fundas at the very beginning of Ponta Garça's settlement. > (It was also suggested that, given the isolation and difficult access to > Grotas Fundas, it could be assumed that João Afonso de Pimentel had a > motive to flee to so remote a spot [J.Guill].) He made his will on 26 May > 1511. In it he made his oldest son, João Afonso, and his son's wife, > Catarina Manuel, the executors and ordered that a third of his lands be set > aside to produce a benefit of 10,000 reis [system of money later replaced > by cruzeiros] for the purpose of having three masses said one week a year > in perpetuity; the first on Monday for his faith in God to be a blessing on > his soul; the second on Saturday in honor of the Peace of Christ and the > last one on Saturday in honor of "Nossa Senhora" with all her prayers [ > *Vida*]. > > [Alverne] *Chronicas da Provincia de São João Evangelista das Ilhas > dos Açores* > [Familias] *Familias Anitgas de Povoação* > [Frutuoso] Doutor Gaspar Frutuoso, Livro Quatro: *Saudades da Terra* > [J. Guill] Letter from Dr. James H. Guill, FEB 98 > [Vida] *A Vida de Nossos Avós* > > See also Miguel Figueiredo Corte-Real: *Os Descendentes dos Condes de > Benavente Radicados in Açores Desde o Século XV.* > > > *John Miranda Raposo* > > -- > For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail > (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the > right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my > membership." > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Azores Genealogy" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores. > -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. 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