I get the feeling Nielson is deliberately provocative for the sake of it sometimes (although if it sparks discussion in an area, then hell why not).
I still think he needs to update his own web site though, it looks like it's stuck in the 90s. I think I've said that before, too :/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Lockwood [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 22 May 2007 14:12 > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good Accessible design' > > Something that every web developer capable of writing their > own name without using Dreamweaver or Frontpage has been > banging on about for the last 15 years. I don't see why > Nielsen gets the credit for that one. :-) > > Cheers, > > Rich. > > On 5/22/07, Brian Butterworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > 'Minimize the number of text fields in your interfaces down to the > > absolute minimum necessary. > > Minimize the number of click/keystrokes/gestures necessary to > > accomplish actions in your interface. > > Make your interface as responsive as possible - minimize > the latency > > of each and every action a user might take in your interface.' > > > > Something that Jakob Nielsen's been on about for about > fifteen years, > > methinks. > > > > www.useit.com > > > > > > Brian Butterworth > > www.ukfree.tv > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Simon Cobb > > > Sent: 22 May 2007 11:47 > > > To: Simon Cobb; backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > Accessible design' > > > > > > This was an interesting article on UI design. > > > > > > http://tantek.com/log/2007/02.html#d19t1813 > > > > > > It's from February so you may have already seen it. I found it > > > referenced on the codinghorror blog which also has an article in > > > praise of javascript > > > (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000857.html) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Brian Butterworth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 17:05 > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > You may also like to try this site, it has access to Google, > > > > Microsoft, Ask and NASA mapping and satellite photos... > > > > > > > > http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=51.509979&lon=-0.226138&z=17.8&; > > > > r=0&src=msl > > > > > > > > It is easily "iframed" > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Butterworth > > > > www.ukfree.tv > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason > > > > Cartwright > > > > > Sent: 16 May 2007 09:34 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: RE: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Yes, javascript is required for the full, slick experience, > > > > obviously. > > > > > All parts of the site are still usable when JS is off (that I > > > > > can see), and seemingly entirely accessible via the keyboard. > > > > > > > > > > With JS on, the keys work in most browsers, although some > > > > require you > > > > > to have the map in focus. > > > > > > > > > > Of course Google Maps has a well documented API that could > > > > be used to > > > > > create uber-accessible versions for different needs - > > > > > http://www.google.com/apis/maps/ > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:'' > > > > > ????????????" > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 21:32 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Jason & Stephen, > > > > > > > > > > when javascript is disabled in Opera or Camino the message is: > > > > > Your web browser is not fully supported by Google Maps > > > > > > > > > > I wonder is the code IE7 specific? > > > > > none of the keys work for me on os x > > > > > > > > > > unless I'm missing something this hardly qualifies as > > > accessible... > > > > > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 16:57, Jason Cartwright wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Disable javascript. Everything works fine. > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of "~:'' ????????????" > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 16:47 > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > Subject: Re: [backstage] Web 2.0 'neglecting good > > > Accessible design' > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > how does one use http://maps.google.com/ via the keyboard? > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 13:22, Richard Lockwood wrote: > > > > > > > > > > This particular rant seems to be about useability rather than > > > > > accessibility (although I appreciate the two are > often closely > > > > > related). Much as I often loathe Nielsen's writing - > > > > Jason's right, > > > > > it's often all about Nielsen more than it is about any > > > > actual problems > > > > > - in this case he's got a point. "Web 2.0" sites are often > > > > completely > > > > > unuseable - MySpace being a prime example, and Flickr > > > > (although it's > > > > > been a while since I tried to use it to post a few pics > > > and it may > > > > > well have improved) another. > > > > > > > > > > Google Maps however, I'd hold up as a prime example > of excellent > > > > > intuitive design and useability. > > > > > > > > > > Just as the phrase "Web 2.0" means different things to all > > > > people (I > > > > > avoid it if at all possible as I feel it just makes the > > > user sound > > > > > like a buzzword spouting bandwagon-jumper who hasn't a clue > > > > what he's > > > > > actually saying ;-) ), you can't tar all "Web 2.0" sites > > > with the > > > > > same brush. > > > > > > > > > > Anyway, I've banged on far too long now, and this is what > > > > > Nielsen wants - people to discuss HIM HIM HIM!!! > Frankly, the > > > > > less > > > > I hear of > > > > > and from this tedious old bore, the happier I am. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Rich. > > > > > > > > > > On 5/15/07, "~:'' ????????????" > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Jason & Gordon > > > > > > > > > > > > any good Accessible Web 2.0 websites you'd care to plug? > > > > > > or are you in a rush? > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 15 May 2007, at 10:18, Jason Cartwright wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all my personal opinion, and I entirely disagree. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mr Nielsen has a history of spouting contrary opinions to > > > > > > court controversy and gain publicity for himself > and his company. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Web 2.0"[1] (for me at least) incorporates best practice > > > > > > methodologies of developing to standards (and the > > > consequences of > > > > > > this, such as progressive enhancement etc) and "trusting > > > > > users as co- > > > > > > developers" [2]. > > > > > > These core principals of "Web 2.0" encourage good design. > > > > > > > > > > > > As with any technology, "Web 2.0" will be misused - > > > it's not the > > > > > > technology's fault that this happens, it's the > > > > > designer/developer that > > > > > > fouled it up's problem. That doesn't look as good when > > > > > you're goading > > > > > > mainstream journos into writing about you though, does it? > > > > > > > > > > > > J > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] I've stuck all these in quotes, as I think "Web > 2.0" means > > > > > > different things to different people. > > > > > > [2] Tim O'Reilly > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ?:'' > > > > > > ???????????? > > > > > > Sent: 15 May 2007 08:48 > > > > > > To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk > > > > > > Subject: [backstage] Jakob Nielsen: Web 2.0 'neglecting > > > > good design' > > > > > > > > > > > > Jakob Nielsen: Web 2.0 'neglecting good design' > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6653119.stm > > > > > > > > > > > > seems to have copied my pitch for hackday ?:" > > > > > > > > > > > > has he been invited? > > > > > > > > > > > > was I? > > > > > > > > > > > > did anyone else have ideas or requirements for an > > > > > accessible SVG front > > > > > > end? > > > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > > > > > > > > > Jonathan Chetwynd > > > > > > Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and > > > the Internet > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.eas-i.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit > > > > > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > > mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail- > > > > > > archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > > mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: > http://www.mail- > > > > > > archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > SilverDisc Ltd is registered in England no. 2798073 > > > > > > > > > > Registered address: > > > > > 4 Swallow Court, Kettering, Northamptonshire, NN15 6XX > > > > > - > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- > > > > > archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ > > > > > mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- > > > > > archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > - > > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. 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To > > > unsubscribe, > > > > > please visit > > > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release > > > > > Date: 15/05/2007 10:47 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.1/805 - Release > > > > Date: 15/05/2007 > > > > 10:47 > > > > > > > > > > > > - > > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > > > > unsubscribe, please visit > > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > - > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > unsubscribe, > > > please visit > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > - > > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To > unsubscribe, > > > please visit > > > http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. > > > Unofficial list archive: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release > > > Date: 21/05/2007 14:01 > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.5.467 / Virus Database: 269.7.6/814 - Release Date: > > 21/05/2007 > > 14:01 > > > > > > - > > Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. 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