On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 14:59:18 -0000, Khazeh Fananapazir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > In a posting today > > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43115.html > > dear Gilberto writes many things but the pressure of time prevents this > servant from responding and I am beginning to doubt that my postings are > read in the spirit of enquiry I was hoping for
Dear Khazeh, I'm not sure what you mean here. I was responding to Ron's post here, not yours. And as far as "spirit of enquiry" goes I'm not sure what you are hoping for. I ask questions. I'm looking at different facets of the Bahai faith. I'm forming opinions. I'm willing to reconsider my assumptions based on new data. If I don't necessarily immediately accept all of your opinions then that is exactly what puts the "independent" in "independent investigation of truth", no? > but these words in > http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist/m43115.html > arrested my attention > Gilberto writes: > > 160 observing that just as the companions of the Prophet Muhammad were > willing to lay down their lives at His feet, the followers of the Bab were > willing to do the same > > If martyrdom proved anything then you all should join HAMAS.> > > The Martyrdom that His holiness Baha'u'llah's Iqan refers to is precisely > that Martyrdom which is mentioned twice in the Qur'an. > One is here > 2:94 > Please forgive me as I will be unable after the end of today to enter into a > dialogue with you until some weekends... > 002.094 > YUSUFALI: Say: "If the last Home, with God, be for you specially, and not > for anyone else, THEN SEEK YE FOR DEATH, IF YE ARE SINCERE." Let me add more context: This is all from a passage directed towards the children of Israel: [2.92] And most certainly Musa came to you with clear arguments, then you took the calf (for a god) in his absence and you were unjust. [2.93] And when We made a covenant with you and raised the mountain over you: Take hold of what We have given you with firmness and be obedient. They said: We hear and disobey. And they were made to imbibe (the love of) the calf into their hearts on account of their unbelief Say: Evil is that which your belief bids you if you are believers. [2.94] Say: If the future abode with Allah is specially for you to the exclusion of the people, then invoke death if you are truthful. [2.95] And they will never invoke it on account of what their hands have sent before, and Allah knows the unjust. Maybe it sounds different to you, and maybe there is some nuance you are seeing that I'm just not seeing. But in the above, the challenge to "invoke death if you are truthful" seems rhetorical. In other words, the point is NOT that everyone who invokes death is truthful. More emphsis is on the criticism of those narrow people who think "the future abode with Allah is specially for [them] to the exclusion of the people". So I'm not sure you really want to insist that the Bab is applying this verse to himself. > As a warning about questioning that goes nowhere and increases doubt rather > than certitude I quote from the most famous 40 Hadiths > http://islamworld.net/nawawi.html#hadith2 > > On the authority of Al-Hasan bin Ali, the grandson of the messenger of God, > who said : I memorized from the messenger of God his saying : > "LEAVE THAT WHICH MAKES YOU DOUBT FOR THAT WHICH DOES NOT MAKE YOU DOUBT." > > On the authority of Abu Hurairah, who said : I heared the messenger of God > say : > > "What I have forbidden to you, avoid; what I have ordered you [to do], do as > much of it as you can. IT WAS ONLY THEIR EXCESSIVE QUESTIONING AND THEIR > DISAGREEING WITH THEIR PROPHETS THAT DESTROYED THOSE WHO WERE BEFORE YOU." > This process of spending time examining the Bahai faith has not made me doubt Islam or Muhammad at all. And I'm not sure what impression you have, but at this point, if I actually ask a question I think they are generally pretty concrete or specific. What are you actually saying? Is there a particular process for independent investigation which you think I should be following? Are you saying asking quesitons is a bad thing? Are you just trying to nicely and subtly tell me that I should keep my opinions to myself? Peace Gilberto "My people are hydroponic" __________________________________________________ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
