Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 10/14/05, Scott Saylors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> Gilberto Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
> I still see you moving away from what the Bahai faith says about the
> Quran, towards what secular Westerns say about the Quran in a way
> which undermines how Muslims understand Islam.
> > I am not redefining Islam at all, but Islam may have to re-define itself
> > in adapting to the future.
Gilberto:
Of course you are redefining Islam.
> Peace
> Dear Gilberto,
> Frankly, I do not have the power to re-define Islam.
That seems like a word game. When I say you are redefining Islam I
don't mean that you will go to Iran and that the people there will
make you an ayatollah. What I am saying is that in the course of the
conversation you are claiming to support "Islam" but in reality you
are trying to defend a vision of "Islam" which is radically different
from the understanding of orthodox Muslims and undermines that
understanding.
--------------------
Dear Gilberto,
Of course I understand Islam radically differently from Islam. I am not a Muslim. I am a Baha`i, and my vision of Islam is arrived at from my vision of trying to be a Baha`i. That is a given. I will not attempt to implicitly or explicitly deny it.
Muslims believe that Muhammed is the end of Revelation. I do not. That is a radical difference.
-----------------------------
From a certain point of view that is "typical" for the Bahais I've
been communicating with in these forums, but you specifically were
going further because you are actually questioning the Quran in a way
I hadn't seen before from a Bahai.------------------------------
Gilberto, I do not know whether the Yemeni fragments will change our image of the Qur'an in the long run or not. I said that at the beginning. I said Islam will have to adapt itself to that literary history if it is true, it will have to adapt to that literary history if it is not true. Adaptation is required of any social/religious/political/philosophical/scientific/ organization. It adapts or it becomes extinct.
I think it would be a shame if Islam became extinct. I think God will protect it.
I think any Baha`i 's point of view toward the Qur'an is colored by his belief in Baha`u'llah. To a Baha`i the Qur'an is the "Old Testament" in most ways. A new revelation and dispensation changes the old dispensations in ways that are profound.
Judaism adapted to many social changes when the revelation of Christ threw the world into turmoil. Christendom was thrown into turmoil by the revelation of Muhammed, and its adaptation was profound. Baha`u'llah's revelation has forced Islam to adapt and those adaptations will become more and more profound as time goes by.
And ofr the record, there will come the day when a new revelation shocks the Baha`i world into turmoil, and it will have to adapt or become extinct.
So it seemed like you were bending over backwards to attack something
in Islam... going further than is normal for the Bahai faith.. because
there are numerous places in the writings which say the Quran is
authentic.---------------------------
There are numerous places which say the Bible - Old and New Testaments - are the Word of God without doubt or question.
Regards,
Scott
Arnold J. Toynbee
